Look to Minnesota, teachers have been layed off, public workers are being cut, taxes have doubled in three years and look like they will average 6% per year increases, and eight years of tax cuts and no new taxes has caused job creation to stop. Wishful thinking Walker is toast.

Cow, the budget has just been signed and we haven't begun to see the results. MPS for example will lose about 1,000 teaching and staff positions, leaving about 8 music teachers for 134 elementary schools. Staff at Ethan Allen have already received their pink slips. The Wisconsin Arts Board lost half its staff and 73% of its budget, and was folded into the Wisconsin Department of Tourism for some unknown reason. The new budget calls for about 21,000 staff reductions from the state payroll overall, and granted a few of these will be converted into political appointment. Once the impact of these egregious cuts start being felt, and the knowledge recently shared by the Journal that Walker's turning down the light rail stimulus package is going to result in state taxpayers paying $90 million instead of $30 million, I think people are going to be peeved. Nationally, according to polls, most Americans are beginning to appreciate that this new wave of freshmen governors and legislators are underprepared for office.

Your right most of the impacts will probably be offset by an increase in taxes, and the recall walker movement will expand exponentially.

"Grass roots efforts made the senate recalls possible..."

'Grass roots efforts' is an interesting term to apply to these partisan recall elections. Did you know that the paperwork for all eight of the recall committees targeting the Republican senators was filed by the same person from Madison on Feb 28th? (Let me know if you can't find the PDFs on the GAB website.)

Either that's some pretty incredible coordination between spontaneous "grass roots efforts"...or the whole circus was a bit more organized than you'd like to believe.

Pete, it is also interesting to note that the recall paperwork targeting the Democratic senators were all filed by the same Utah-based PAC fund bankrolled by the Koch brothers. The out-of-state filings were the cause of the delay in approving those recalls.

Bren, the GAB indicates that 14 recall committees were created to recall 8 dem senators. For one or two senators, three individual recall committees were formed. Of these, none of the Utah-based recalls were taken to completion. When I contrast this with one person filing all 8 committees against the 8 repub senators, it sure looks like the dems were more organized. To me, being organized is consistent with central planning...not grass-roots efforts.

On a side note, this observation is not a comment on the validity of the recall election campaigns. I think all of them (dem & repub) are misguided and a huge waste of time/money. They set a bad precedent, especially if successful, by lowering the bar for future recalls. And to what end? Is it really worth it to shorten the term of someone you don't like by 3 months. It would have been much better simply to vote against the incumbents at the real election in November.

Pete, I checked GAB and it does appear that there were local recall efforts filed as well. Whether these were GOP directives or not is not clear from these documents. It was interesting to note that Erin Decker, a Republican on the Kenosha County Board of Supervisors, appears to be the Treasurer and signatory for "Taxpayers to Recall Robert Wirch" in the filing papers dated 2/23/11. The home base of this organization is located at 8330 82nd Street in Pleasant Prairie (not Decker's posted address). This is an apartment complex. An anonymous online reviewer had this to say on 04/11/11: "These are Apartments. They are expensive, but that doesn't keep the 'ghetto' out. I live in 8330 and have for 3 years." An intolerant mindset perhaps revealed.

I guess if grassroots is code for "union"....

I highly doubt the 800+ people circulating petitions in our district were paid. There's not enough money in the world to get people to walk miles in freezing rain for a cause they don't believe in.

I suggest you take a look at the petitions that were filed. We had over 800 circulators, and about 3,400 pages. To me, that means a ton of people each gathered a few pages. if they were paid canvassers, their results would be much better. It's easy to repeat the rhetoric about paid canvassers, etc in 10, but when you actually look at the *facts*, you'll see where the rhetoric doesn't make sense.

I don't think anyone is claiming that the canvassers are being paid. They are being motivated by the propaganda being spewed by the Dems.

The farther removed we are from the 'sky is falling' rhetoric that the unions/dems were spreading during the BRB/Budget announcements, the more people will realize that Walker was right...

Yea. Walker abandoned them. Stocking up instead for his own recall$$$

claiming that the canvassers were largely paid is either lying or ignorance. Take your pick.

Yeah, twenty million plus grassroots $

My wife and I were canvassers as were most of our neighbors, never once in this whole effort have I met or seen anyone that was not from this area involved. There was no union money in the effort, it was the local community bonding together to do what needed to be done. No one was paid and no one even got gas money. IN fact we started by downloading the forms from web page and started with family, and in turn a number of the family started sheets, and then we went to the neighbors and they started thier own. We all picked locations around town and at intersections and talked to people. Unions my tukus, this is not about unions and never has been. I actually do not approve of unions but I disapprove of taking away someones right to union representation if they want it even more. What rights will walker and the koch brothers want next. They are after clean water and clean air, and giving away state asetts, what else is next.

William, seems like you have a double standard when it comes to evaluating political arguments.

On the one hand, you are willing to rely on your personal experience with collecting recall signatures and extrapolate it out to include the whole recall process in district 10. This comes across as: There weren't any out-of-district petition circulators and there was no union money in the effort because I didn't personally see any.

In the next breath, you are willing to assume a direct conduit between Gov. Walker and the 'Koch brothers'--and further assume that they want to take away rights. Not sure how you jumped to this conclusion, but it wasn't by applying the same standard of reasoning. Or have you personally seen the Koch brothers taking away rights?

Mainstreet, I saw an interview with the individual who started the Hopper recall. He stated that hundreds of people in Hopper's district volunteered to circulate petitions--more than he could use. The individuals circulating petitions in Mary Lazich's district that I spoke to were also volunteers.

It was the Koch brothers-funded PAC out of UTAH that paid canvassers to lie to Wisconsin voters in efforts to collect signatures to recall Democratic senators.

Jene, the unions in both a national and state level have already spent over $ 6 Million dollars in these current batch of recalls. To even suggest that this is not fueled by money or unions is being rather naive at best.

Chris- everybody knows money was spent on both sides. What I take issue with is the insistence that the people who were actually the boots on the ground were somehow doing it for money. I wasn't paid to canvass, dozens of my friends weren't paid to canvass. There are plenty of other reasons to get involved, money doesn't drive everyone.

Jene no one said the canvasser were getting directly paid. You made an assumption on that based on one simple comment by mainstreet. Let's review that comments shall we? It was : "Sorry Jene, It was union money and democratic party money that made the recalls possible. Without it they wouldn't have had all the canvassers needed to collect the signatures in time." Guess what? Mainstreet is correct. The unions organized and paid for these recall events around the state. Honestly who do think it pouring money to these Pac's such as "We Are Wisconsin" or Organizing for America(Obama's little group) that were helping out canvassing? Sure you and your friends weren't paid directly to canvass but it still takes money to hold some of these events. Again, naive to think other wise.

WISGOP did not support them. Why waste money on a lost cause.

Nice to see an active discussion which shows the level of ignorance about what is going on and why. Scott is doing what we elected him to do. If anyone has better ideas our system allows for those ideas to be considered. We need to do less whining and more true sharing of our ideas and values. We need to be creative within the boundaries of our Constitution rather than critical. We can and must create changes where waste, fraud and roadblocks exist. We need to be a state where business can grow with out harm to family growth. Where education is able to contribute to the growth. Bring your solutions to the table rather than your rants. Thanks for reading and contributing as this is the American/Greendale way.

Joana, you call people with a different opinion ignorant whiners and then ask us to bring solutions without ranting. Just wanted to point that out.

However, even us ignorant ranting whiners want education to be a priority. Keep an open mind. We're not your enemy. Try talking to us. There are some pretty informative conversations going on here and posts from people who speak from personal experience. On both sides. Not sure where Greendale is. This is Hudson Patch, isn't it?

What has he done to help the middle class? He gave away 800 million to big business with no strings, schools are going to be struggling, property taxes will be increasing, county and city services will be cut back and a lot of jobs are going to disapear. The cuts in public payroll mean there will be cuts in tax receipts by the state and lower spending. The middle class is financing walkers agenda.

Look to minnesota to see where you are heading. Cuts at the state level are made up by increases at the local level. You cost are going to increase significantly.

I don't see the downside to using local funds to pay for local initiatives. But I do see the downside of using local funds to pay for state/federal initiatives...and using state funds to pay for federal initiatives.

I also see the downside to sending federal/state govts more money than they need, just so they can 'rebate' it back to a smaller govt unit...with strings attached.

It would be much more efficient to not 'donate' the excess amount in the first place.

Pete, the downside to using local funds to pay for local initiatives occurs in localities that do not have enough money to pay for services.

Prosser-cuter, your views are those of the minority in this state, and most are factually incorrect. Walker's current approval rating is about 43%. That number would be far higher if the "only ones who are still pissed off are public employees and their families." As I indicated elsewhere, the budget just passed and cuts haven't begun to be felt.

Bren, the downside of using family income to pay for family expenses occurs when our family doesn't have enough money to pay for everything we want. Since our family has a debt ceiling (credit card limit) and since we can't print our own currency, we have to prioritize our needs and wants. Then we have to make tough decisions about what to fund.

As the song says, "You can't always get what you want...but you get what you need."

Yes, local funds should be used for local projects. However, the state collects a lot of money with (up until now) the promise of sending some of it back. I see nothing in Walker's proposals about reducing the state income tax -- at least for my bracket. But he'll be sending much less of that income tax back to us, which will either mean higher property taxes or reduced services. This really doesn't sound like such a great deal to me.

Jay Warner- Apparently you missed the TV6 news investigation which interviewed administrators in every district in the state and all but three said they are better off financially under Article 10. The last I checked, the Governor is elected to represent all 5+million residents of our state, not the state workers. Most teachers I know do it for the children, not for how they can bilk the taxpayer, and most understood they were getting a better than fair deal. No one in Governor Walker's administration ever demonized union workers. Yet he was called Hitler and worse. I won't back down from my statements about union leaders using thug tactics and to every teacher that walked out on their students illegally, this is the wrong profession for them. Jay- I spent many days teaching JA at all levels unpaid, no benefits, because I believe in educating our children. The adults are finally in control and doing the responsible thing and not pandering, but doing their job. I do agree that we need leaders who lead and Walker did just that.

@Brian Dey...The union criticism was not done directly by Walker or his administration, it was the legislative leaders. Also, you call Walker a leader and that the adults have taken over, but is it the nature of adults to unilaterally take actions that remove rights? What one man calls leadership another will call it tyranny.

Lyle-
I think you had a typo. You were supposed to spell privileges, not rights.

Lyle- Let me ask you this; Was the Senate, Assembly and Governor elected? My point being is that the voters of this state elected a Republican majority in both houses of the legislature and a Republican Governor. Anytime they all agree will be unilaterally. That is representative government and the point you miss is quite simple. The people of this state voted for a unilateral government. That in itself is a mandate. Of my representatives, they all ran on balancing the state budget and eliminating the deficit. That is what has been done. If you are a Democrat, you will not be happy, just like when the table is turned, Republicans won't like policies. As long as it stands up to the Constitution, the only recourse is to vote Democrat and hope more vote with you than against you. there was no tyranny. The voters elected them and majority still rules in this state and our country.

@Brian Dey...I would agree with you if Walker had been transparent in his campaign and indicated what his plans were for limiting public unions collective bargaining. As far as I and others are concerned he won only by deception and that's the primary reason for recalling him.

I, for one, have nothing against those who work for any state, county or municipality. Yes they do make our lives so much easier. I could not care or teach a bunch of ungrateful crumbcrunchers or rugrats and I hate getting up at four a.m. to plow the drive and except for the chucklehead plow driver who leaves such a huge pile of snow on my apron they do an exceptionally good job. It is the union bargaining on their part that I have the problem with and some of the perks so many of them(not all) receive that make the biggest impact on what the taxpayer has to pay just to support our services, which seems to happen at all levels of government.
No not all teachers are bad and to some degree are underpaid but do not cry or whine at having to pay a small fraction of some of your benefits, it is insulting to those of us who pay our taxes and who support you. Let`s not forget at what level this so called debate started. The government workers were just an after thought to the teachers union cry for their "right" to bargain be saved, luckily for the unions there are so many who tow the union line.
I would never accuse any hard working public employee of stealing form the taxpayers as I would never accuse any politician of dishonesty. The reality is that somehow the taxpayer has to have some kind of tax relief especially as we age towards retirement and consider leaving this tax hell state. Man there are some really, really good informed points being made here.

Lyle~ why do you call the union having "rights"? If these are rights for all americans, wouldn't every job be a union job? I, not having these "rights" prefer to call some of them privileges. But would like to learn why some consider them "rights?" That is the best thing about the patch, if you keep yourself open, you learn alot on both sides.

@Concerned about being united...What I am referring to is a philosophical concept involving social contracts. There are two types of rights: Inalienable Rights which are bestowed upon all by the "creator", and Alienable Rights which are bestowed upon people based on a social contract. When public sector employees were allowed to organize in 1959 the legislature extended statutory alienable rights, which only could be altered through statutory legislation. A privilege is a condition granted under special circumstances. i.e. the privilege to drive. A privilege is much more restricted and can be altered with or without legislation. We have a privilege to have a driver's license but it's status can be changed at any time. If you want to look closer, I would suggest you read my blog in the shorewood patch.

Thank you for posting back. I do not see the union "rights" as rights. I do see the driving privileges "rights" as they concern everyone. to me there is a very big difference.

@The prosser-cuter...You are making the same mistake that "W" did when he said "Mission Accomplished". It's way to early to tell how well the changes will work or fail. Therefore, stop crowing and start watching.

That's exactly right Lyle. How can anyone post on here how all these cuts are "working" and everything is hunky dory? The downward spiral has yet to begin.

Especially when you consider that by progressively cutting public employee salary, purchasing power is being removed from the economy. We are the job creators.

@ Shannon that's because some of us go on facts and not fear mongering.

@Keith 14% of Wisconsin workers are unionize(6% are public employee unions). Nice try but you don't come close to representing the majority of Wisconsin citizens who fuel the economy.

Keith:

Is that money vanishing into thin air or something? If public employees are taking home less money, yes they personally have reduced spending power. Since taxes need to be raised to cover the cost of the public employees keeping that money in their take home pay, then taxpayers have the reduced spending power. Either way, it seems that there isn't a lot of difference as far as taking money out of the economy...

Chris - Do you have a crystal ball? How are the cuts working? Links are appreciated.

@Shannon here you go:
http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20110629/APC0101/110629072/Story-documents-Kaukauna-schools-project-1-5M-surplus-after-changes?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cimg%7CFRONTPAGE

Another one: http://www.livinglakecountry.com/kettlemoraineindex/news/123914624.html

Another one: http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20110706/APC0902/107060619/Neenah-settles-teachers-amid-collective-bargaining-changes

Here another one: http://m.host.madison.com/mobile/article_17b066ac-ace1-11e0-bc50-001cc4c002e0.html

Wait what's this: http://www.fox6now.com/news/investigators/witi-20110713-inv-school-deals,0,7065478.story?page=1

Kind of an opinion conservative piece but some good facts in this one: http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/walker-s-vindication_577310.html

Hmm working? http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/07/wisconsin-schools-buck-union-cut-health-costs

Chris - Well that was a lot of reading this early! Thanks for the links (though some were a bit slanted as you even admitted.) I don't see how Walker can claim he "saved" these school districts when he is the one who made them need saving.

Here's my problem: It sucks now to be a teacher. We're going to see the best and brightest of them quit and our children are going to be affected by this. Why would anyone teach? My school district here in Hudson is excellent. Is it your opinion that they will be able to keep that level of excellence given the inevitable layoffs and larger class sizes? I guess only time will tell.

I was civil to you and read your links. I will appreciate your treating me likewise.

Walker really wasn't the one that 'made them need saving'. Many school districts were facing budget shortfalls before Walker made any changes. Walker's cuts were also much smaller than the ones we had under Doyle. Here in Shorewood, we had cuts each year from 2005-2008, all higher than the current cuts under Walker. The biggest difference is that school districts are now able to look for ways to close budget gaps that don't involve increasing our property taxes.

I disagree with your statement that the 'best and brightest' teachers are going to quit. Public school teachers are still compensated much better than the typical private school teacher. Under Walker's budget, schools are avoiding the layoffs and increased class sizes that you are fearing.

"I don't see how Walker can claim he "saved" these school districts when he is the one who made them need saving. "- Shannon. That's not true either. Doyle's last budget cut $300 Million in school funding. These districts also knew that they were not going to have that one time stimulus money as well. We knew a long time ago before Walker was even elected that these days were coming. Some people choose to ignore it. We've enjoyed(that's sarcasm) bad politics and policies on both sides the last ten years in this state with continuing to play kick the can down the road politics. What is happening in our state right now shouldn't come to a surprise to anyone. Especially if you've bothered to pay attention closely to state politics over the last ten years.

Hambone- Then work in the private sector. You do have a choice. I'm sure you still make more than someone doing the same job as you and still have better benefits.

You can change careers.
Also welcome to the recession. The private sector also has not seen raise increases equal to unemployment and pay freezes are common. A lot have seen 20+% of their co-workers laid off.
With a balanced budget you will be much better off, and not having to pay union dues will put thousands back into your pocket. Thank you for your public service.

I have worked there. Actually, with my qualifications and experience, I make less than the private sector. I am also "on call" 365 days a year with no compensation other that the overtime I make if I come in overnight to plow. Problem is, after a 12 hour shift, I usually lose my straight wages the next day while I sleep, so there is no huge benefit to being on call 24/7 - 365, aside from our benefits/insurance package. I don't make doctors wages, or anything close. I took this job for the security. What the public doesn't realize is that, yes, when the economy drops, we remain at the same level and we look like we are living off the hog. But when the economy is booming... we still remain at the same level. We don't get larger raises or bonuses in a strong economy, we simply maintain. In the 70's and 80's, you could hardly give away a city job because we made so much less that the private sector. On the whole, we make 20% to 30% less than the private sector. Our one saving grace for being "on call" and the often thankless work we do was our benefits. Neither we, nor our Union are the "villans" walker makes us out to be. Most of us work dam hard to make the city a great place to live. Unfortunately, walker is going to turn us into another Detroit.

Hambone, are you really that unintelligent to believe what you posted? The Republicans are the class that actually does care about the middle class. Remember, it was the Republicans that worked to get the benefit payments of 275,000 state employees closer to being in line with the rest of the workers in this state. All to provide a way to make it so 2.8 million homeowners saw no property tax increase. Get with reality.

"Unfortunately, walker is going to turn us into another Detroit."

Are you suggesting that fiscal responsibility is what happened to Detroit? Better yet, are you suggesting a conservative Republican is to blame for what has happened to Detroit?

So your solution is for the people who work for the city to quit? Well.... good luck next time it snows with that policy. No Walker is making them the Villian, how dare those peons demand decent wages and a say in how they get treated. They need to go back in the there holes and do as there told eh?

See Ben, you demostrate your ignorance in bold fasion. Plowing is only one of my duties. I work in forestry and as a foreman, I am on call 24/7 365 a year for that too. I have a pesticide aplicators license, and am an ISA certified arborist. In forestry we cut down trees, plant trees, grind stumps, remove stump grindings, cut the blvd. grass plant blvd flowers, maintain the blvds., not to mention pruning over 200,000 city trees, responding to service calls from citizens, all in addition to plowing snow at a moments notice. When snow falls we are there clearing the streets, regardless of kids birthdays, Christmas, New Years, Superbowls. How much do you think you would need to be paid to be on call like that? We earn what we make. Tell you what, come on out this winter when it's 15 degrees outside and join my crew climbing and pruning trees rope and saddle, if you can manage to get up a tree in the first place.

Hambone, did someone hold a gun to your head and make you take that job? Is someone doing so now to make you stay? You sound miserable - maybe it's time you found something else to do.

Honestly, if you think you're gonna lose your house and think you can find something else better elsewhere, have at it. I imagine there are only a couple hundred folks who'd be more than happy to take your place.

Nothing's forever, buddy, You've pretty much been insulated from the private sector job market for awhile, it sounds like. Maybe what you need to do is go out and mix it up out here for awhile. You might find you had it pretty darn good, even with the pending cuts.

Bob, You've got it all wrong. I really love my job. I'm merely educating those of you who have no concept of what we actually do for the quality of living in this city, and we are only one small department whose budget takes up a whole whopping 1.6% of the city's budget. Police and Fire.... They make up 65% of Milwaukee's budget. So you tell me, why should I have to take everything up the ass when walker exempted the Fire and Police? Oh, that's right, he made a back door deal with their UNIONS to back him in the election. Guess unions aren't sooo bad as long as they back the winning horse, even if they are the largest drain on the budget. Guess it's really not about the budget after all. As for my benefits and collective bargaining, we gave up our right to strike years ago to have collective bargaining, we are also not allowed to hold a second job due to being "on call", or live outside the city. What would you say if your employer told you you couldn't get a second job, or live where you wanted to? Our benefits have always been our compensation for being "on call" and bound to the city. As for the pension... something walker never would have mentioned, is that our city pension is one of the strongest in the COUNTRY. It is self-sustaining. Newer employees have been paying into it for the last 9-10 years. However, neither the city nor the taxpayers--of which I TOO am one- -have had to pay anything into it for at least 20 years. Sucks to be so miss-informed eh?

Do you think employers don't require that you live within a certain geographical area or demand that you not have a second job, in the private sector? Many do. Many require that you live within a certain distance of where you'll be working, or they won't hire you. Even more won't allow a part time job (what's used to be referred to as "moonlighting") as a condition of employment. So who's misinformed here?

Bottom line is you took the job for job security, as you stated, knowing that your compensation wouldn't equal that in the private sector. Unless you're currently in danger of being laid off for anything other than performance issues, I'd say you've gotten what you took the job for and, frankly, I don't think you've really got much to complain about.

I do know a bit about the landscaping business, which would be the closest equivalent to what you do and where you'd most likely end up in the private sector. I also know there are a number of folks working in that field, currently, who have the same qualifications you do and who probably don't pull down what you do, whether it be in salary, benefits, or a combination of the two. Many of them can only find work seasonally. Some are unemployed.

Then there are those who took the gamble, made the investment, run their own business and are very successful. They sacrificed security for opportunity. You chose the opposite and sacrificed the ability to have much say in your future. Your choice.

I think we all need to remember that no matter what profession, and whether they are union or non-union, we all know people we work with that do their job and do it well, and those that...well...not so much. It does not mean everyone in that profession is like that.

My dad always said the DPW on Milwaukee vehicles stood for "damn poor workers"

Lyle- No I do not advocate all services be privatized, but some do make sense. Police, fire and all schools; no. But cleaning and maintaining the schools, charter school (combined with regular public education) make sense. Maintaing right-of-ways, parks, municipal buildings such as mowing, etc... Those make sense.

@Brian Dey...I thought an important American value was work; and, an honest day's pay for an honest day's work. I can't believe you would accuse public employees of stealing from the taxpayers. Public workers provide important services to the general public and shouldn't be penalized by disgruntled reactionaries like yourself. The fact that the private sector has lost their jobs and benefits is in no way the fault of the public workers. It is a complex issue, but the private sector has made unwise decisions that have eroded the value of private sector workers.The way you are whining about public workers is nothing less than job envy. If you have the skills and pass the examines, you too could have job security as a public employee.

In the past the public employee's union has mediated against unfair work place conditions and to assure that the employee was given a honest day's pay for an honest day's work. You call public workers greedy for wanting to be paid honest wages, but you don't seem to mind the greed that businesses and the wealthy who profit by reducing jobs, pay and benefits for their own selfish reasons.

Raise wages in the private sector instead of lowering them in the public.

Lyle-I'm not accusing the public worker, but the greedy union leaders that represent them. It is not a complex issue at all. No envy at all. I am the proud owner of a successful business that has adequately provided for my family. I employ others and pay them a fair wage that they are more than happy to work hard for. I was a private sector union worker for years and the only thing I saw my dues were used for was political activism that I didn't agree with, and protecting the jobs of poor workers, much like the public unions as I sat on many grievence hearings and termination hearings, and arbitration where arbitrators, appointed by Gov. Doyle sided time and time again to protect teachers drunk on the job or involved in sexual misconduct, proudly represented by their union. The pensions and benefits were unfunded most of the time and taxpayers last November said enough is enough, and thanks to those elections, our budget is balanced and our taxes are frozen. If a few cry babies, and I find that those that whine the most are usually poor workers, are upset, so be it. The people spoke loud and clear and Wisconsin is a clear sign that the TEA Party's message resonated here.

@Brian Dey...I don't know what kind of business you own an operate, but I can see why you would be opposed to any union. I can understand your support of Walker and company since he represents an unexpected windfall to you. I can also understand your statement of concerning union greed is a greater problem than corporate greed, it is in your best interest to support corporate greed. Your Tea Party admission is a caveat which explains volumes about you personally. If your credibility was not in question before, it is now.

Lyle- I'm waiting for all those corporate tax breaks, that windfall you keep claiming we get and oh yeah, thoses subsidies you claim. Just remember, I worked two jobs for 14 years to sart my business, invested 100's of thousands of my own money, employed workers at liveable wages all to be a middle class. The return I get is a corporate tax of 35%, 7.65% employer contributions for Social Security and Medicare, 11.5% for Workers Compensation, state taxes, local taxes, fees, permits. Yes, on the corporate side, 52 cents for every dollar earned is given to the government. I won't even go into the personal tax side. Not to mention what's coming around the pike with Obamacare. Lyle, it is people like you that live off the government like it is this endless revenue stream off my hardwork, that don't understand what money really is, that just think because I own a corporation makes me a evil and greedy; that have formed my opinions. No one handed me a dime, the government won't bail me out, and if it makes me have a comfortable life, so be it. I didn't come from money, and I am sick of people like you that somehow think you have the right to dig into my pockets anytime you want more.

Lyle,
though the union was founded on principled values for the average hard working american they have outlived their usefulness. They have failed to see the need for equality on both sides(workers vs taxpayer). They have turned into the same type of greedy, corporate type you so loathe.
I do not believe there is anything or anyone in this country that the public employee need fear. Nor do I believe there is any agency that would deny those workers a fair, decent wage for their hard days work. Working conditions have improved greatly in this country, not because of unions or what the world thinks we should do but because those rich and greedy slave owners want efficiency not to mention the unions power to overprice american labor to the point that corporations have taken jobs from this country for way, way cheaper wages and far less restrictions in other countries. I do not think that is right but that is, simply put, business.
I, for one do not envy public workers. They have to put up with a whole bunch of public crap I would just walk away from, not to mention having to pick up the slack of those who slack. I do suffer from a severe case of over-taxation, and unless those the majority elected do not take action and prove to those who elected them that they are worth their salt there will be change. It is just too bad there are those who believe that change now is what is best for the majority who spoke last election.

@Brian Dey...In the list that you provided I didn't see healthcare or benefits, not even a 401(K). Of your employees how many are full time permanent, how many are seasonal and how many are part time permanent. Since you are a closely held corporation there isn't anyway to verify what you actually pay in taxes, etc.

The windfall I mention will come when the state and local government entities begin Walker's Phase II of privatization. I am sure with your political connections you stand to benefit from contracts for your business as they replace public sector services. It will become apparent that you will be able to provide the services cheaper than the government since you don't have to worry about providing healthcare or retirement, that savings will be reflected in your lower bids. For someone who is so critical of government spending, I'm sure you won't be turning down any government contracts.

Lyle- Privatization has proven critical in maintaining budgets. It always costs less, the job performance is always better. Why? No bureaucrats and genuine competition. Don't think that is bad for the taxpayer; better work - less expensive. As far as my business, I've already given you enough info. If you want to know more, become a stckholder.

@Brian Dey...I hope you're not advocating that all government services are privatized; including schools and social services. Since you are a closed corporation are you offering me an opportunity to buy in?

No, there are fools that vote against their self interest. Really Dan, the GOP really represents 2% of the population. As for the rest, they should stand up for themselves.

You imagine the unions taking us for millions while corporations are taking is for billions. But that's OK in your mind because you imagine them to be white men.

And thanks for taking the time to make crap up.

Aldo, thanks for expressing your tolerance of opposing viewpoints.

For all the talk of 'greedy' conservatives, it's amusing to watch you try to explain away the large number of conservatives in the middle/lower class as "fools that vote against their self interest."

If you give it some thought, you might come to the conclusion that there is more to self-interest than just money (although this goes a long way to explaining why there's so much liberal anger toward successful conservatives).

Many conservatives consider the preservation of individual rights and freedoms to be the 'self-interest' they are voting for...and they resist the arguments that collective rights and privileges can exist independent of individual rights.

@Pete Principii...I like your nom de plume. Anyway; anyone who thinks that conservatives are all alike is either foolish or ignorant. Philosophically they range from fiscal conservatism to social conservatism to everything in between. Conservatives are represented by both the uneducated or undereducated all the way to true intellectuals. Conservatism as well as liberalism is a result of perception and beliefs about the world. To determine if someone is really voting against their self interest, you must get to know them first and then make your judgement.

@Lyle Ruble The variety in individuals is what gives us 'flavor.' It'd be pretty boring if we were all clones and drones.

As far as one individual being able to determine whether another is voting against their self-interest: Why bother? The number of variables and intangibles to consider would be staggering. Even assuming that one could truly 'know' another, the process would have to be started all over again for each individual.

You really don't read much do you, and you assume an awful lot. How does it feel to be owned by corporations. Serfdom died years ago but it looks like you want to bring it back.

I'm curious about your claim that "There is more union greed than corporate greed." Why on earth would you think that Brian? I'm not being snarky, and I'd really appreciate your keeping your answer cordial. The civility on these comments is dwindling (and I'm not singling you out - just an observation.)

Shannon- I sat on the RUSD School Board in 2005 thru 2008, was on the negotiating committee for 2 contract sessions for 6 unions, including the REA/REAA and the SEIU. While the private sector saw dwindling of benefits becauseof the high cost of healthcare, the benefits kept getting better for the unions. While salries in the private sector were being froze, the salaries were growing at times, higher than the cost of living. Year after year the unions were endorsing referendums to get those better benefits, free pension, etc... with no concern for the people that pay for those benies and salary. The corruption on the public union side is the money they funneled into school board campaigns, in turn getting enough votes to perpetuate the taxpayer funded salaries and benies. If you are an elected official that goes against the unions request, you are villified in the media with more union dollars. All this to raise their bottomline. I always stated that any benefits concessions taken by the union could be returned dollar for dollar in salary and the taxpayer would still save as salary is a fixed cost. However, through negotiations with the majority of the board bought and paid for by the unions, got the unions to pay $20 - $40 towards their premiums, with most in the private sector paying 10 times that amount, and in return, the union got nearly 15% salary increases over 4 years, while the private sector saw little or no wage increases.

cont... All at the same time, resources that went directly to the teachers instead of the classroom. In 2005, 75% of revenues went for salaries and benefits, while in 2010, 85% went to salaries and benefits. Our high school students can't bring textbooks home, our teachers teach less hours than the average 40 hour per week worker, get 4 months off, the kids test scores are tanking, all while the union tries to grab more and more money for themselves, with the full support of the school board. In the private sector, that is felony collusion. I've seen the union wanting to close 4 schools to keep salaries and their benies. I've seen the union wanting to shut down music and athletics to keep their salary and benies. Corporate greed will usually result in going out of business, unless those corps are propped up by the govt.

And aldo, you are barking up the wrong tree as I am aa corporate owner.

@Shannon Brian covered the local level, I'll hit the federal level(s) . You can start here: http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?order=A

As you can see Aldo comes on here and is using the ole "Republicans and the evil corporations self interest shtick". I mean it's cute and all but guess what, as you can see by the link I just provided. Democrats still get plenty of money from those evil corporations as well.

So, Brian, do you agree with privatizing education? I'm of the opinion that that would hurt children from disadvantaged families, but would value your opinion since you do seem to have a fair amount of experience from the content of your last post.

I feel that teachers for their education level (most of them in my kids' elementary school have Master's Degrees) are underpaid compared with private sector (even factoring in summers off). They had better benefits to make up for that lower pay. From your information, it sounds like it's not the teachers you have a problem with but the Unions representing them.

I hope that the claims that teachers and school districts will be better off will come true. I just don't see it happening.

Why do so many teachers have master's degrees? Studies have shown that advanced degrees in teaching really don't translate into better performance by the students...

Shannon- You are absolutely right. My problem is not with the indivual teachers, but with the unions that represent them. I have always been a strong advocate for public education and have been leading an effort to get our own district in Caledonia, away from the dysfunctional Racine Unified (http://www.caledoniaschooldist.org). But I also believe in private schools and charters. All can have value and offer a choice for the parent. My youngest child goes to an instrumentality-charter school and I find it to be a great school (22 in her graduating class). I was a product of both public and private education. One of the things I have found interesting is that a child from inner-city Milwaukee was the Valedictorian of Nicolet High School thanks to vouchers. If similar results can be achieved, then I am all for vouchers. I wish I had the link, but I read that the average Harvard graduate with a Master's Degree, earns $50,000 per year salary. I believe in pay for performance, and if you are a great teacher, you should be compensated that way.

Shannon, It does seem as though some of the passion is being overrun by angry or sarcastic remarks to those of us who voice opinion. We all work very hard each and every day and we all pay our share, some more than others, but at the end of each and every day we are we are all overworked and tired. Seems the only thing we can all agree on is the greed part and there seems to be an endless supply of offenders be they "conservative" or "liberal". The one equality in all of this is the fact that we as taxpayers deserve more than the lip service we have been spoon fed all these years. One very positive to this whole debate is that many more people are waking up and getting facts before they vote.

Archie, I totally understand people's ire. Yesterday, I was challenged to think outside the "partisan box", and I've been finding that, if I keep my mind open, I actually learn what "the other side" is thinking. By considering that, I can reconcile it with my way of thinking and think about working toward compromise. I believe that is what this country needs. We have differences. Let's find some common ground. I listened to Brian who has different background experience than I do. He read my concerns and gave his opinion. I learned something. I agree - we're waking up and getting the facts. I'll get off my soap box now.

Wow, hard to know where to start. Was he elected to bust the unions ? Did he campaign on that ? Recent polls taken in the state ( btw, how is it down in Fla ? ) have shown that 59% of the people HERE disapprove of walkers actions. IF you wintered here,,,you would know....

@Bill using a poll based off of 556 people polled and trying to pass it off as how the majority of people feel in this state is kind of sad. We could get another 556 people and get the exact opposite result. Most national polls at least use 1000 or 1500 when polled. Polls can be used to shown anything you want. The fact of the matter is this state is pretty evenly divided on these issues. We've been a swing state for years. You're not going to change the fact of the being trying to use a poll for your agenda. No matter what side you lean.

Really, if walker had been honest about wanting to bust the unions and actually campaigned on that he never would have won. It was a close race to begin with and I have lost count of the people who voted for him who are now regreting their vote after he sprung this union busting regime on everyone. Taking our right to collective bargaining was a budget issue...no wait, they took it out of the budget so they could vote on it seperately. That means, by default, that it has NOTHING to do with the budget and everything to do with politics and trying to undercut the Dems funding,all the while feding and bolstering their own funding by giving our tax paying money to big corporations. Hmmmm

Actually he never ran on this agenda, I voted for him but he lied and now I will vote to recall him. If your happy with walker just remember your paying for the pleasure when your taxes rise. Yes the foolish legislature put a cap on local tax increases but so did minnesota. The cities will simply raise the mill rate, increase valuations, and add service fees. Saint paul adds about 20% to the average tax bill in service fees, Phoenix charges a $1000 fee for police and fire or $3500 for a business property. Over the next few years all of walkers savings are coming right out of our pockets.

William, if you want to live in one of those communities, then do so...and pay for the public services you receive. If you think the services in those communities cost too much, then move to a different community that governs more efficiently.

You have the freedom to choose.

Pete principi- I do have homes and /or comercial property/businesses in those communities and they are more efficient than hudson or saint croix county. They have already gone through what wisconsin is starting to do with the first walker budget. It is not a matter of moving it is simply the effects of the budget cuts. In several years when the full effect of these cuts kick in wisconsin communities will be forced into similar circumstances. All walkers cuts do is push the revenue generation requirement onto the cities and counties. You will be paying similar taxes and fee increases.

@sanchez...Good for you. However, you need to get used to the idea that Walker will face a recall election and Ron Paul doesn't have a "snowball's chance in hell".

Actually I quit the republican party because after a fee tea party meetings where most of the people that showed up were unemployed and getting benefits, collecting workers comp., getting county paid AAA treatments, or packing in farm subsidies and complaing about taxes that none actually paid. In a way walker should have his way and Obama should let the government default. Once these people figure out thier lives are paid for by the government the democrats would gain 40% of the republican party. When are you going to realize this has nothing to do with unions, the total unionized work force in wisconsin public and private is only 14.7% of the state workforce. This is demonizing a minority group to build blind support. Ever heard of nazi germany? It is an old tactic to rally people, the unions have nothing to do with it they need voters to back thier agenda and this is simply thier way to buy your vote.

If the republican party becomes serious about fiscal conservatism, I suspect there will be many corporate types who will switch allegiances if the democrats pledge to support their pet programs and subsidies. If the democrats lose the 'greedy corporations' plank of their platform, they'll have to be content with arguing that conservatives are 'fools voting against their self-interest.'

Pete principi it wont be the corporate types they stand to make to much money, it will be the moderates that move to independent.

I think I read an article the other day that claimed that Ron Paul was the only potential challenger polling ahead of Barak Obama...

BTW, I think people are soured on making another Gov from Texas president again, this soon. :)

Cow Dung: most polls have Mitt Romney as the fore runner of the GOP race. There have been a couple polls lately that have Ron Paul polling even or a few points behind Obama. I havent seen any that have him beating Obama, yet but they will come :)

Ron Pauls campaign for 2012 is just getting started. While he may not get the multi million dollar "endorsements" from special interest groups that Romney and Obama get Ron Paul is putting much more effort in to 2012 than 2008 and even more important is that people now know he has 30 years of proven and documented unwavering commitment to the Constitution of the United States and they are starting to agree with him. He is not as "fringe" as some media outlets may portray.

Good posts, Terry.

Walker inherited a budget that was showing an approximate 120 million positive balance. The deficit was manageable and with minor cuts and continued growth in jobs would have been fixed. Instead he gives away 800 million in tax cuts with no strings attached to corporations, dumps 15,000 jobs associated with the high speed rail project by refusing the federal money to pay for it and proceeds through his actions to create the budget crisis to which he responds by blameing the public worker unions. I have a hard time believing Walker is capable of anything other than being a lap dog to the koch brothers. Listen to his recorded conversation, he is neither bright nor capable of leading the state.

My goodness Welbes, it's hard to fit so many lies is one post. Walker inherited a 120 mil surplus. Oh really? That Dem statement was proven 100% false months ago. And high speed rail would have created 15,000 jobs? Come on! No strings attached to Corp tax incentives when it clearly states to qualify, corps need to bring new jobs into the state. With such statements, you lose any credibility! Either you are totally misinformed, are just repeating union claims or enjoy lying on this blog. Which is it?

bewildered
Look it up. Budget- www.wiscnsinbudgetproject.org/budget-comparative-analysis-2011-13.

Transportation- The WDOT found that 9500 jobs would be created in wisconsin if the chicago-mineapolis route was built. The total jobs if the midwest network was built were at 15,000. In the first year the facility in milwaukee where the first two trains were to be built, the factory would employ 150 with 450 additional support jobs. The station construction for all of the line side stations was estimated at around 1,500-2,000 direct and support jobs in construction and materials industries. The part I worked on in engineering involved over 1500 designers, architects, draftsman, environmental staff and similar disciplines. Rebuilding the road beds installing signals, building new sidings,new crossings, fencing, was projected to take almost 7500 workers. 400-500 quarry workers just in mining all the road bed material needed to upgrade 80-100 year old roadbeds. This was a monumental engineering effort. I would be more than happy to sit down with you to discuss. Just the track engineering to support high speed trains is amazing. Its a mute issue now. Minnesota has started the right of way planning and engineering to develope it on thier side of the river and bypass wisconsin. Appollo Alliance was forcasting over 2000 manufacturing jobs once the full order for trains on the midwest network were ordered. ww.wispirg.org/news-releases/tranportation-new4-transportation.

Well said on all your comments Linda and William!

LOL no kidding Brian. Corporations are out to make money? Stop the presses , this is ground breaking stuff here.

Walker is bought and paid for listen to the tapes where he thought he was talking to david koch, fawning over the man. And yes the Koch brothers have an agenda to eliminate environmental regulation, they dont hide and they dont dispute it. Everything else is just pablum to keep the pawns and masses happy.

Actually that is not true, we employ over a hundred people and like every other business I know we work to eliminate staff to be effiecient. We have grown five fold in the last six years and have not added any staff. All our growth is through added automation. Now when people quit, or retire we expand out our automation to cover it and to add capacity. We are a research facility and the fees we charge have dropped by over 200% in the last 10 years due to competiton. If you look at the banking industry they employ a fraction of what they used to and they are planning cuttng at least another 50% of thier staff. The software industry employs less than half what they did 10 years ago and it is dropping steadily. You are absoulutely wrong, business is adverse to hiring and most of the jobs lost in the recession are not coming back they were eliminated. The unemployed essentially amount to the fat that companies were able to wring out during a bad economy. Most have been replaced by more efficient scheduling, automation and part time contract workers. Job growth is going to come from new companies, and new services, not from the existing. Unfortunately walker is focused on low end jobs and low wages in a race to the bottom. We were forced to take the stance we did because we could not find enough skilled scientists that could do the work to grow the business, so we had to figure out how to do it with less people. Most of the unemployed dont have relavent skills.

"It sounds to me that companies would love to invest that money into something that can grow..." So, you're saying they're not "Jobs Creators", as these corporations have been crowned. Its makes more financial sense for them to use our resources and infrastructure, hide profits overseas and declare a loss here. I'm sure they're enjoying the tax holiday while holding record amounts of cash, watching those regulations and democratic ideals drop away....

If that is the way it 'sounds to you', then perhaps you need a hearing aid...

Corporate growth tends to create jobs...

Perhaps if the federal corporate tax rates were lower here, companies wouldn't be choosing to pay the taxes on their profits overseas...

...or would you prefer that the cash be stolen through the "windfall tax" scheme that the Dems wanted to slap on the "Big Oil" companies a couple years ago?

I don't think you need to worry about the multinational corps. "A bounty of subsidies, shelters and special breaks — has made American multinationals “world leaders in tax avoidance,” according to Edward D. Kleinbard, a professor at the University of Southern California who was head of the Congressional joint committee on taxes. This has profound implications for businesses, the economy and the federal budget. ""A Government Accountability Office study released in 2008 found that 55 percent of United States companies paid no federal income taxes during at least one year in a seven-year period it studied." Sooooo.....they're using our infrastructure but they're not paying taxes here, they're not hiring and they're holding record amounts of cash. You think we're not being nice enough to them? Really? Should we give them our water? The air we breath? Our children's futures? What will appease the corporate gods? Plutocracy has been encroaching on our democracy for a long time but now they have way more money and power. I don't think we're safe.

Can you be any more overdramatic?

Again, if the federal tax rates in the US were lower then the "evil" multinational corporations would be paying their federal taxes to the US instead of overseas...

This isn't really a state issue either--companies like GE didn't have federal income tax liability, but paid state, local and payroll taxes...

Maybe when Scott Walker becomes President of the US, he can address the federal tax code and find out why GE didn't pay federal income taxes...

"Can you be any more overdramatic?" You bet.

"Again, if the federal tax rates in the US were lower then the "evil" multinational corporations would be paying their federal taxes to the US instead of overseas."
None of the multinationals pays the stated rate. (see above quotes and analysis) We have lots of loopholes for their tax-avoiding convenience.

"This isn't really a state issue either--companies like GE didn't have federal income tax liability, but paid state, local and payroll taxes."
Walker keeps saying "we're broke" yet wants to give tax breaks to big businesses. Theres some local for you.

"Maybe when Scott Walker becomes President of the US, he can address the federal tax code and find out why GE didn't pay federal income taxes."

Yeah, I don't think closing corporate tax loopholes is in the ALEC playbook, do you?

Yes, I understand that they aren't paying the 'stated rate'. Apparently you miss my point--if the 'stated rate' were lower than the rates of the overseas countries, then GE (and the other multinationals) would choose to pay their federal taxes to the US instead of overseas...

Linda:

What "tax breaks" has Walker given to "big business"?

Are you referring to the tax breaks he offers to all businesses (big and not big) for hiring more people? Are you referring to the tax breaks he is offering to all businesses (big and not big) for coming in to Wisconsin?

They are not going to invest a dime in anythng until the debr ceiling is dealt with and a longterm program is in place not a six month bandaid. We are holding off on a new facilty for that exact reason. A significant interest jump coupled with a tightening or credit and expansion no longer makes sense nor can it be cost justified. Any expansion that companies are doing are overseas, where many of these political issues are more stable.

I agree but until the budget issues both state and federal are resolved no one is going to do anything. Until companies can reasonably project out the cost of interest and what the impact of the cuts is on real estate taxes not much of anything is going to happen.

Considering the size of the deficits, I'm thinking that my wallet has more cash than the US treasury does...

Cow dung wondered why GE didnt need to pay federal taxes. GE finance lost billions of dollars in leasing deals and equipment financing such as jet airplanes, etc. they are sitting on billions of dollars in paper loses that they are allowed to write of against income. Last year they wrote off enough to off set thier US profits, thier financial statements indicate they can do this over a few more years until thier income offsets are used up. Essentially the taxpayer is subsidizing thier poor investment losses.

Don, with all due respect for your opinion, you've never taught a classroom full of high-energy kids, some are ESL, some are special needs, some ADD/ADHD, and been responsible for keeping them in line and on assignment and actually teaching them something while also dealing with the social issues that come with these kids and their situations. I am not a teacher, but I volunteer to help them often. Then again, I've never worked an assembly line, so I won't judge manual laborers. Let's both try and put ourselves in the other person's shoes and realize that we all have challenges.

This might be the most ignorant comment I've seen on here yet. And honestly, just sad. The fact that the extreme right wing has gotten us to the point where people are now fighting amongst themselves over what jobs constitute "real work" and which ones aren't is just so completely depressing. Don, if you'd ever been a teacher before, you'd realize just how ridiculous a comment like this is. Don't play into the hands of the super rich that have driven our economy into the toilet and are now trying to force the rest of us to fight over the few scraps left over. Stand up for your rights and fight back against the ones that are truly making life hard for you and the rest of us.

I have relatives who are no union teachers. Kids are not the problem, it is the parents who expect the teacher to raise thier kid. In a non-union school you do not fail a student for not showing up to class all year or the parent will have you fired or your pay docked. They just give them Cs and wave them on through. Unfortunately in this world school administrators and parents can be just as morally corrupt. I have never been in favor of unions but I am against taking away that right to join one. Take that away and what is next? The right to clean and water, they are working on that one as we speak, the right to vote? its being tampered with already, the timing for absentee votes has been reduce, voter ID is another fiasco a solution looking for a problem. Whats next privatize the DNR and have a for profit company manage fees for hunting and fishing, plus thier profit, Once you start down this slope there is no turning back.

"Does anyone else think that maybe we should see how the senator recalls turn out first.." No.

Prof~ if you're comment is to me, you probably have not been on long. I am not a tea party! I am also not republican or democrat. I keep a very open mind and I do not criticize or smear anyone! And you can ask some on here that are very much on side that I have been trying to learn both sides. Ask Shannon, THII, some that are on here all the time and they will verify. I was asking the question on the basis that, if the democrats do not win enough seats to win back the majority, a recall of Walker seems like a useless, waste of time. If there are not enough votes to get out the republican senators, there are not enough votes to get rid of Walker! Maybe you will understand that statement better?

Concerned about being united, I was NOT commenting to you. The tea party loonies are more than evident here and you aren't among them.

Ironically if you look back in history at these types of events they really dont have much impact one way or the other. There may be five or six years of tough times either way and then it gets good. 200 years ago the US was considered by europe to be a third world country and low cost low wage importer. In the big scheme of things all is for naught.

@Brian Dey and @Lyle: I basically was asking Lyle the same question yesterday. I asked what he thought of the massive budget cutting, layoffs, and closure of state facilities that democratic governors Brown of CA, and Cuomo of New York just completed. Basically came back with the predictable (I don't care because I don't live there) argument. You can bet the ranch that Dem's would have loved Article 10 if Doyle passed it! I never once saw a democrat post anything negative about Doyle's education cuts!

I noticed that the Dems did stop using the term "draconian" after it was pointed out that Doyle's state aid for education cuts were bigger than Walkers...

I think the questions lays more with, would all this be happening if the bill had not touched the unions.

@Brian Dey...Guess what, I would have opposed the BRB even if passed by the Democrats. Just a bad idea. I also oppose single control of the legislature and the state house. Currently the Republicans are causing mischief, but the Democrats are just as capable. This is one of the problems of our form of government that is not encountered in parliamentary systems.

Lol mischief
I think you mean getting things done

Then I probably would still be a republican.

Walker Supporter, I'm not clear on what you meant by this statement. Why is it sad that the students' education won't be affected (if it truly won't be - I have no way of knowing right now)? Isn't that the plan? Surely, if this plan worked in Kaukauna and the other districts that were the subject of articles linked to posts here today, why isn't it going to work in Milwaukee and Racine? I have no knowledge of what those school districts are like other than the common knowledge that their test scores are pretty bad and supposedly they have eighth graders that can't read from the rumors I hear.

Shannon - here's more on Milwaukee.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/walker-s-vindication_577310.html?nopager=1
There is a lesson in there too. Notice how the teachers union is crapping on their own dues paying members and selling them down the road. If Shellout More gets elected it will be the same thing she will do to her constituents who supported her. Bet on it, its the union way.

Bill, it is rather simple. Because none of that money was being used for actual educational purposes. It was money that was used to go towards the benefot packages district employees. I ask you this. Why have none of the school districts listed above laid anyone off as of yet?? In fact didn't Amery issue layoff notices in March only to hire all the affected people back after June 28th when the repair bill became law?

That's easy Bill! Why don't you figure out what 12% of each employees $10,000 plus healthcare package costs, plus 5.8% of their pension costs. Then figure that the districts in question probably finally got out from under the WEAC insurance scam and saved another 2-4K per employee in premium savings.

Prosser-cuter. Actually for family coverage with a $500 out of pocket per year WEAC was chargingat least one school district in the area $18,800 per year.

Bill, which districts did that, that you listed above? And I will say this, if they did, they were dumb to. Most districts that passed contracts in this state did so utilizing the 5.8% pension, and 12.6% health care in it. Look it up. But please tell me which of the school districts you named cut a deal? And why wouldn't layoffs for next year tell the whole story? The revenues are set for 2 years with the current budget bill.

Bil, humor me and post one of these stories you found. I am intrigued to learn more.

Isnt that what america is all about? And no I am more anti-union that you could ever imagine, but I also not believe in demonizing them for something they are not capable of. I could go further but you didnt say what you disagree with me on.

It's likely the disparity between what is paid by the employee in the private sector and what is paid by the employee in the public sector. Where do I go to sign up for the free Viagra benefit like the one the teacher union filed suit to keep?

Yes, 401(k)s do the same thing as a pension aside from one minor detail--the employee pays almost all of the cost of their 401(k), while the company pays most of the cost of a pension...

Bil, calling a 401K the same as a pension plan is a horrible lie. 401K's are employee funded. Pensions are employer funded for the most part. The biggest difference is that while a 401K is dependent on the market for growth, pensions have a set amount of payout and if the fund dips below being able to pay that amount the employer is responsible for providing the additional funds necessary to pay the recipient. Please use that google you ask other people to use so you can post accurate information.

@Bil Gates & CowDung...

There are a number of differences in 401(K)s and pensions. A qualified 401(K) is actively managed by the employee whereas a pension is not. A 401(K) is primarily an employee contribution with or without employer contribution. A pension is a deferred payment plan, whereas in lieu of salary or wages, the employer holds back a certain percentage to be given to the employee later, usually at retirement. For example the employee with a pension is being paid $50k gross per year plus a 10% deferred pension contribution for a gross total of $55k per year. Where the 401(K) participant is paid $55k up front and must make the contribution from the gross per year. The 401(K) performance is singular and affects the employee only, while a pension plan performance is equally shared by all plan participants. when I worked for companies that offered a 401(K) I always calculated my asking salary by enough more to compensate for having to contribute to my own retirement and sole risk. With public employees now having to defer an additional 5.8% from there annul gross it really is a 5.8% pay cut, because the employer is paying 5.8% less in compensation. Employers prefer 401(K)s because they don't have to contribute as much and there are ways of avoiding matching. Whereas a pension plan the employer is on the hook no matter what.

no, I only believe "public" unions are bad. In the private sector unions have competition and that changes the whole thing.

"Respectfully Mr Hogan can you show me the numbers, I've spent a bit of time trying to find them and have come up empty."

I'm not Mr. Hogan, but there are plenty of numbers on page 9 of the Shorewood school district budget...

http://www.shorewoodschools.org/documents/SDS%202011_2012%20Budget%20Packet%20_04_11_11.pdf

Year 2006/07, $1,047,041, 15.46% cut--Doyle.
Year 2007/08, $1,009,163, 17.62% cut--Doyle.
Year 2008/09, $493,586, 10.46% cut--Doyle.

Year 2011/12, $403,927, 10.00% cut--Walker.

That's CowDung !

No--Doyle just pushed the costs down to the local taxpayer.

Here's the article talking about how the projected shortfall was addressed.
http://shorewood.patch.com/articles/shorewood-school-budget-includes-no-additional-adminstrators

Still talking closing schools in Elmbrook Dist.

“U all are crazy and the world will end due to the fact that no one can come to a clear decision and work together.”
"Hopefully there will be a turn of the time when there is someone brave and smart enough to step forward who can help us all."

Actually that IS the problem, hoping for someone else to "help us all". That kind of thinking got you obama.

No, instead many people are pulling up their bootstraps and going to work to solve the issues. Instead of falling for the propaganda, they are paying attention, using common sense and getting armed with the facts about our government’s political shenanigans. They are realizing that they need to be vigilant, instead of hypnotized or complacent. They are organizing at a grass roots level and using the power of their vote to move zealots out of the offices they were elected to serve. They are voting in people like Paul Ryan and Scott Walker; who have the intelligence, wisdom and courage to do the RIGHT thing.

This isn’t the end of the world.
It’s America at its finest.

Ryan Walker 2 of the biggest dopes in the world

dear bewildered and confused, sent you the links three times and yet you refuse to acknowledge and continue to post garbarge. Since you do not have the fortitude to use your own name insist on trite phrases with no backup, and do nothing but spout talking points, it is easy to see you are one of the paid tea party hacks used to intimidate people on these newsgroups.

"it is easy to see you are one of the paid tea party hacks used to intimidate people on these newsgroups"

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!

amazing, but not really. RINO

When the Choo Choo came up Walkie failed again and now the Choo Choo is going to cost the state dearly.

Well stated Tony!

8 - 16 -2011 64 more state union teachers just got laid off

Government union worker's pay taxes Dony, and probably more then you

40,000 jobs , more like 4

Tea Party should have been a separate party on its own

Why call yourself a former "moderate" replublican? Why not just call it like it is? Call yourself a "progressive". Your comments read like liberal lefty propaganda.

Does somebody need to come out of the closet?

We can smell you "conservative envy.

40,000 jobs ... Summer Fest and State Fair ?