Beg to differ with you about Herb Kohl. He worked behind the scene. Whenever I had a question or asked him how he would or would not vote he answered. Ron Johnson perhaps would answer weeks later and with the incorrect bill at hand. And what else have we heard from Johnson, other than his standard "we have to cut the deficit." Herb Kohl did a fine job and I only hope Tammy does the same. And I do agree with you about Tommy.

You do understand that Herb wasn't personally handling his own correspondence, correct?

Yes of course I do. But at least his staff knew what bill I was talking about. And when I went to Washington D.C., Herb Kohl had time to sit with me. Not Johnson. Met him i(Johnson) in the hall. He was too busy. Just gave his famous one liner "have to cut the deficit". Research Herb Kohl and his record, you will be surprised since you think he never did anything.

Personally, I'd rather have someone in Washington who's keeping themselves busy enough that they don't have the time to sit down with random visitors who come calling. But if you're voting for an email buddy or someone whose office you can plop down in when you're vacationing in Washington, maybe Tammy can fill that role for you.

They all have records. You can look them all up. And if you harken back to Kohl's first term in office he wasn't setting the world on fire or particularly responsive to constituents either. He did, however, set the pace for rich guys getting elected to the Senate - just took him a few terms in office (again, facilitated by a war chest nobody could successfully challenge) to get into the swing of things.

I figured you would give a snarly reply. No wonder the two sides cannot get along. I was not in D.C. on vacation, nor am I some random visitor. I have business there, not that it is any of your business. Your assumptions are useless. You tell me what your wonder boy Johnson has done for you or the State of WI. I know what Herb Kohl has done. And talk about fat cats in office---- what is Johnson? Oh yea, that is the guy that wanted to pay himself back for his campaign expenses isn't it? So who paid for what election here? Next time I'm in D.C. I'll let you know if Johnson is still roaming the hallways. Hoping Tammy Baldwin has a long and memorable career in the Senate. And to think she was elected without having a fat wallet.

Lee, Baldwin didn't need a fat wallet. Large amounts of her commercial were funded by 2 huge unions. AFSCME (American federation of state, county and municipal employees) and SEIU (Service employees international union)

It's not a snarly reply. I honestly don't care if our elected officials take time to see you or not. They're not there to play host to you on your travels there, business or otherwise. They're there to work, not make you feel special.

What I said about Kohl's first term there is factual. You can look it up. As is the fact that he set the pace for rich guys buying themselves a seat. You can look that up as well. It was quite the bit of news at the time. Nationally as well as state-wide. He was also notorious for keeping a low profile and only showing his face around re-election time. You're comparing a one term neophyte against the entire career of a guy who made a career of it for himself simply by being unchallengeable from a financial standpoint. If all he'd done in that period of time was show up and vote present he would have, by nature of the time served, have to have done more than Johnson. In fact, if you look closely at his voting record, you'll find there were periods of time where he did just that.

I don't know what kind of business you run, but if it involves any kind of comparative analysis, you might want to think about pursuing something else. THAT's a snarly reply. Deal with it.

Gee Bob, I don't remember asking for career advise. And if and when I need it, I sure won't get it from the Patch, much less from the likes of you.

No extra charge, Lee. You're welcome.

Herb Kohl has been a tireless champion for Wisconsin and education in our state. What he hasn't been is self-aggrandizing. Or preparing for his post-Senate speaking tour, book deals, or lobbying career. I'll take the quiet worker any day.

Herb started out a decent moderate that even Hoffa previously voted for. But towards the end, he became lazy and merely towed the party line.

Lee - Bob speaks the truth. Not a snarly reply. He does have generous and sharp wit. You just happen to be someone who can't open your mind to another point of view, as honest as it is.

JB, I think if you look at Lyle's response over on your own article, you can get the gist of it. Ending gridlock and working together means the Republicans roll over and play dead and the Democrats no longer have to compromise their hard left positions to make them appear palatable. Obamacare, for instance, (which apparently is a Republican program, according to Lyle - who knew?), is replaced with NHS. It's all rainbows and unicorns and cotton candy and puppy dogs from here in out. Just watch!

@Bob
I know. I think is alleviates my frustration with the ignorance of the American left to post obvious questions that they not only won't answer, but can't.

Well that's what I thought I was doing when I got that one from Lyle. Be careful what you ask for. The results can be frightening.

Steve, that makes you a double loser. You voted for a loser to a loser.

Dirk, How many times did you vote for Barrett?

Who do you have in mind to represent the workers with the management? We would have no Middle Class, No suburbs, No high rate of college graduates (which is declining). I often hear; well, unions once had a role to play in America, but they are no longer needed. It took a lot of sacrifice loss of life, and many years to build the labor movement and in turn the Middle Class. It will not take very long to have the 8 hour day expanded without over time pay, expand the 40 hour work week, no more weekends off, paid vacation and holidays, gone. Now I can hear you chuckling, but there is nothing that can stop companies from doing what I have mentioned. Walmart is the template for future employment in America. They hand their part time employees medicaid and food stamp applications. That is what a lot of people voted against on Election Day. The Right can not keep it's relevance if all it can do is demonize everything.

William Eib wrote: "... Walmart is the template for future employment in America. They hand their part time employees medicaid and food stamp applications..."
Billy, have you got a source for this, besides DailyKOS or HuffPost?

@Menoparent
You said, "Walker's continuous lack of governing and not wanting to follow the rules". Yet you support a president unable to get a national budget for 3 consecutive years and instead abuses the Executive Order of the president to circumvent that elected legislature.

Hypocrite!

JB, you know the President has worked with, compromised to the point of anger from his own party, budget takes 2 to tango, not from a lack of trying, the people are dissatisfied with the lack of compromise from the congress (namely tea party freshman), it's called voter regret, not from the President.

@Meno
His own party has rejected his budgets each time. Then he goes golfing. Where is the compromise? When they rammed healthcare through (remember Pelosi, "we can read it after it passes") where was the compromise?

You libs have created a persona for Obama that does not exist in reality.

@J.B. Schmidt -- The Dems rejected GOP sponsored 'versions' of the President's budgets in both the House and the Senate and you know it. Or maybe you don't. It wouldn't surprise me.

@Randy1949 -

If memory serves, the GOP sponsored versions of the President's proposed budget that were voted down by every single member of both the Senate and the House actually contained less spending than the original budget actually proposed by the President, but still had significantly more spending than any budget proposal made by the current Republican caucus of Congress, right?

Well, didn't Obama promise that he'd cut the deficit in half during his first term? If the GOP was attempting to help him in accomplishing that promise, then where exactly was the problem for Democrats?

Hoffa is very confused by this!

The perfect example of a failed B.O. compromise...B.O.Care!

After B.O.Care passed the Senate, B.O. had more than enough votes for it to pass the House. At that time B.O. could have approached leaders of both parties and said...

Ya know, this legislation is a piece of crap. It will only pass the burden of health care onto the middle class. You have a choice. We can come up with a REAL solution to the rising costs of health care and make efforts to get everyone covered. If not, we will just pass this bill and be done with it.

Instead, Barack Hussein Obama chose to pass the biggest legislative boondoggle in American history!

@Dirk
Just because half of America was able to chose the road of destruction for the rest of the country does not mean I should sit back and take it. I don't remember you holding your tongue during the recall.

@Dirk -

Funny - Hoffa doesn't see Republican representatives fleeing the country to prevent a quorum, conservatives occupying Capitol Hill, staging fraudulent sick-outs in our public schools, marching around the White House with signs depicting Obama as Adolf Hitler, pouring beers over the heads of Democratic law makers, wasting millions of taxpayer dollars on frivolous recalls, filing a multitude of frivolous litigation, or any of the other crap that you guys on the left put this state through over the last two years!

If the worst we on the right do is belly ache a little in online public forums such as this, that's still light years better and far more adult than the crap that your side has pulled in your childish temper tantrum over Scott Walker.

If you can't see that, then you have some real problems!

BTW - The State Senate, State Assembly, State Supreme Court, and Governor's Mansion are all once again solidly in the GOP's capable hands! Your temper tantrum in this state was all for naught!

@J.B. Half of the Country did not chose a road to destruction, that's your unfounded, sore loser take on the election. The undercurrent you are missing is; people have gotten tired of the constant drum beat of Negativity and Pessimism, such as your remark. Fatigue set in. Voters decided that was not the way they wanted things to be. And until the GOP and the Right don't start reigning in this awful tactic of tearing people down, the GOP is going to end up as an ineffectual political party.

They decided to spend 4 precious years, 4 years the country needed help, with the help of FOX, Rush, Beck and the Blogosphere trying to assassinate the Character of the POTUS. All they did, and with your help as well, is get the guy reelected.

Imagine, if you are able; if the GOP used those 4 years getting the economy straightened out and made sure every one knew it could not have been done without them, they may have not gotten so humiliated last night. That's how the Grand Old Party did business in the past. This all out personal attack strategy is a loser. Here is is the day after a defeat and you're at it again, you must enjoy the pain.

@William Eib -

So, analyzing Obama's record, the scandals, the executive orders, and all the broken promises was "trying to assassinate the Character of the POTUS," but the ads depicting Romney as a criminal, tax cheat, out-of-touch, murderer were a-ok, right?

WOW - you guys on the left have a strange sense of fair play!

Funny, when Billy gets his way we are sore losers.
When he doesn't we are evil.

you are aware this silliness of deriding Obama is what cost you the election. This very tone, the juvenile behavior element to it, silly name calling. It all contributed to the down fall of Romney. To make the assumption that your witless school yard name calling attracts grown ups to your side of the street was debunked last night. My God man, 4 years was not enough to cure you of the inanity of the beat down on Obama. You convinced a lot of voters that your side of the street is not serious about the solving problems, you would rather spend your time in the school yard coming up with witty insults about the 1st Negro to attend your school.

This very shoot form the hip hyperbole is what got her elected. You have no idea how tiring the constant drumbeat of negativity is. Fatigue set in with the public. The constant haranguing, one negative thing after another. I don't know who suggested it was a way of winning elections but it was righteously debunked last night. And here you are first day after the election firing up the failed tactic once again. You cost Romney and Thompson the election. there were as many people voting against your type of behavior as voting for Obama and Baldwin. If your Party leaders don't get the message and continue to foster this behavior, the GOP is headed for 3rd Party status.

@William Eib -

Obama/Biden ran a much more negative campaign than Romney/Ryan did - all media is in agreement about this FACT.

Kinda kills your theory about negativity, doesn't it?

Rolling on the airport tarmac, flying the friendly skies to various red states and "conservative" "think" tanks, preaching the ALEC agenda to politically atonal choirs. Ordinarily I would be furious with an absentee politician sucking at the taxpayer teat (as all publicly-paid employees are apparently a scourge) but in his case the less time he spends in Wisconsin, the safer we are from his, let's call it underprepared approach to his job. Bon voyage! ; )

I hope they do another feature, on the news, about the State Senate majority getting to choose their new offices. I bet that the names, painted on the doors, are not even dry yet.

@Greg -

It's a shame that the Dems wasted taxpayer's money on that grandonization over their meaningless victory with Lehman in the recall elections.

@Bren -

Why aren't you upset at the money wasted by the Dems in re-arranging the offices at the state Capitol when the writing was on the wall that their recall victory wasn't going to hold up just a few short months after the fact? Wouldn't that money have been better spent on education or public work projects that could actually be used by a constituency?

How come all we hear from you over this is crickets???

Bren - is Obama going to roll out the "red" carpet in Benghazi? Oh wait, he already has. Blood red.

Ima, you have no on-the-ground information or background to share on Libya.

Stepping away from your conjecture and baseless finger pointing, let's review some facts from our previous president's administration: 3,000 people died because of 9/11. A little less hubris, a few less vacation days, a bit more report reading and that death count might have been lower. Also consider that approximately 100,000 Iraqi civilians died or suffered serious/permanent injuries as a result of our invasion/war.

Also that you may have voted for Mitt Romney, who was planning to bring a score or more of Bush's bright stars into his administration as foreign policy experts. Knowing what happened before, and voting for its potential continuance might have reddened your hands with innocent blood as well. Votes have consequences.

@William Eib -

"It seems it is perfectly okay to have no shame, and everything is fair game to destroy your opponent. I.e., Does Jeep ring a bell."

What about Jeep exactly?

Romney was exactly right - Jeep plans on upping assembly production in China, as even Fiat/Chrysler has admitted to this. Currently, any demand for Jeeps in China that is not being met by the present European/Asian assembly plants is filled by product from the American assembly plants. Thus, if Jeep ups assembly production in China to fill that demand, the demand on Jeeps assembled here in the US destined for export will logically decrease. Less demand on the American plants means potential layoffs at those factories, or at the very least, that new jobs will be created in China instead of being created here.

Hoffa thought that both sides were fighting for American jobs - are you now claiming that Obama is OK with Jeep upping assembly production in China instead of here, and won't fight the way that Romney would have to create those jobs here instead of over there?

If so, then why exactly did you guys vote for Obama?

You lefties are really starting to confuse the hell out of poor old Hoffa lately with all of your spin, inconsistencies, and hypocrisies!

So, what's the deal on this one Eib?

JRH I agree odd couple in US Senate --- maybe not the worst thing in the world --- especially as nothing of any real substance will be accomplished in the senate until they get rid of that arcane filibuster !

In the state --- wouldn't you have been very surprised if the Republicans did not maintain control -- especially after they spent $1 Million of our money to make sure they gerrymandered the districts to their advantage ?

Nothing will be accomplished in the Senate because everything that happens there is 100% controlled by the party leaders. You could send two house plants in place of our Senators and as long as they vote when told, you would not notice a difference. Harry and Mitch are the odd couple, but they are more like Randolf and Mortimer Duke, from Trading places, two powerful rich guys pulling the strings of our government over a $1 bet. And they are lead by a President that lacks the skill or want to truely lead.

@David -

You guys already tried claiming that the redistricting constituted gerrymandering before a Federal District Court, remember? And as Hoffa recalls, the Court decided that only 1 district needed to be redrawn, to actually support a racial/ethnic majority, because apparently it wasn't racial enough - an outrageous decision that actually demands a racist sentiment.

So please, give that crap a rest already!

King lost the seat that you guys picked up from Hopper in the recall. Lehman will also lose the seat that he stole from Wanggaard in the recall during the next election cycle - that's all but guaranteed. Then the GOP majority in the Senate will grow even bigger: 19-14.

Embarrassing and proof that your recalls, frivolous lawsuits, and the Dems going ape and re-officing the Capitol after their meaningless recess victory, were all little more than a giant waste of taxpayers dollars.

Honestly, how can you guys constantly whine about the cuts made to education in the state budget, despite Walker giving school districts the tools to make up for cuts in state aid if the districts choose to exercise those tools to their full extent, and then go and blow millions of taxpayer dollars on Capitol protests, frivolous recalls, frivolous lawsuits, watching the Dems rearrange the Capitol offices after their meaningless victory, etc?

Don't you think that your side is extremely hypocritical?

JRH You got it wrong about the gerrymandering here in WI --- First of all it is NOT illegal UNLESS it is discriminatory. The Republicans had the best attorneys that OUR money could buy, but they were greedy and overextended into discriminating a district that their lawyers said would be a problem.

The courts took a very soft handed approach --- even though the Republicans had the districts drawn in secret, and even had their own people sign oaths not to tell, and their law firms tried to stonewall the judge on discovery -- the court only addressed the one district that had racial overtones in its composition.

I got to say Jimmy, you is losing your cool dude !!

Your rants in your reply about the schools and protests and what all else, had nothing to do with my observations.

I never said the gerrymandering was illegal --- but it sure was expensive, or is that an expense that you would sign off on ?

BTW -- I am mildly interested in a comment you made in another post about how you might have to move your company jobs to China or something like that --- do you really own a company? Do you make something? With all the time you invest on here, if you do own a company that makes something and you are forced to outshore jobs to China, maybe it would be that you spend so much time here that you are an absentee owner and are not paying attention to your knitting!

@David -

You're confusing Hoffa with Steve ®.

Hoffa owns and operates a small family restaurant, for supplemental/investment income. And unlike the low life POS scum bag Keith Schmitz, Hoffa actually used his own money to build his business without any government handouts.

Obama already previously raised our business taxes. Between Obamacare going into effect and the new round of taxes he's proposing on businesses, that would essentially push Hoffa's net profit margin down to about 3.7% on yearly revenues of roughly $300k, absent any other negative changes, such as inflation (which would increase food and energy costs), decreased sales because of a bad economy or due to the necessity of having to raise prices to stay profitable, etc.

For a lousy $11k/year or less, that Hoffa would then have to pay even more taxes on when he transfers it from the business and into his pocket, it may not be worth the time invested and headaches anymore.

Thus, Obama's policies may very well cause Hoffa to either sell out or close up shop and liquidate the business, thereby laying off all his employees (2 full time and 23 part time).

Obama is great for small businesses and jobs, isn't he?

Steve ® owns a company that invents and manufactures products as well as buys and resells products that fit this specific industry. Costs have increased under Obama, and will continue. China sucks but to stay in business decisions will have to be made. Especially after obamacare kicks in.

Steve ® stared his business with the $600 "tax refund" check received from GW Bush in 2008 (purchaed saw and website). Since then it has been 100% funded by cash AKA Profits (evil). Steve ®'s company profits are taxed at an individual rate which will increase under Obama. China sucks but to stay in business decisions will have to be made.

mmm mm mmm

BTW -

If you're claiming that the GOP wasted money on redistricting, at least that's something that they were required to do by law. And even when the Dems were in control during past redistricting, it still ended up in federal court, lest you forget!

The real waste of taxpayers money came from fraudulent sick-outs in our public schools, Capitol occupations and protests, having the AG and outside counsel have to defend against a multitude of frivolous lawsuits filed in front of Dane County trial Judges, two rounds of meaningless recall elections, re-officing the Capitol over a meaningless and short lived recess victory during the recalls, etc, etc.

Hoffa hopes that you can see the point.

How are you guys going to react to Walker's next biennial budget, which he's currently working on?

JRH I can't say that I understand your math ....... and I have "unfortunately" been in the restaurant business ... and it was not a planned or pleasant experience.

If your margins are that small, I think you should take a look at what you are doing -- restaurants are pretty much a boom or bust business, and if you are not booming, won;t be too long before you bust.

The confusing part though is that you think that Obama raised your business taxes, or that (I presume) you think Obama care will affect you.

If as you say you are paying business tax now and then again when you pay yourself, you had better get a better accountant. Unless you have a zillion investors, even if you are a C corp you would go subchapter S and you would not pay any corporate tax on income -- it would flow through to your 1040, on which you would pay "personal" tax, or be able to use any loss.

The same applies if you are an LLC - -- again, income is not taxed as corporate and then again as personal -- just once as personal.

This is a common loop hole that many businesses with even thousands of employees use to avoid corporate taxes.

They set up as a C corp with subchapter S ( as long as not too many shareholders), they pay NO corporate tax, it all goes to their 1040 and they only pay personal tax ...... if this one loophole was closed to say companies doing $3 miilion or more -- wow rates could even be lower and we would have more revenue !!

@JRH And by the way --- you seem to think I am one of "you guys" Democrats !!

Not so ... I am an independent, I learned the hard way that there is no substantive difference between Dems and Reps --- and the intra party politics are all just BS.

I have voted for as many Republicans as Democrats, and will continue to vote for the person I think is the best, or at least the lesser of two evils.

If I ever ran for office again, I think i would use the Sheriff Clark method --- run on whichever party ticket is popular for the area, but stay away from the party and run on my own platform --- not that I like his !!! but give the Devil his due -- he fools enough Democrats to get re-elected.

@William Eib -

"You can only take a man at his word, not what he meant."

So, then, Hoffa is guessing that you must have conveniently overlooked these words (paraphrased) from Obama when deciding to vote for him yet again:

There will be no mandate in my health care bill.
I'll half the deficit in my first term.
No tax increases on the middle class.
My stimulus will create 8M shovel ready jobs and lower unemployment to below 5.6%.
The auto companies completely repaid all of their bailout money to the taxpayers.
Health insurance premiums will drop by an average of $2,500.
My policies will encourage economic growth and drive wages up.
I'll end the wars on day 1.
I will renegotiate NAFTA and other unfair trade deals - take it to the bank.
Etc.

That's called LYING - and you apparently bought into all of it!

@William Eib -

If memory serves, the budget proposed by Obama, unaltered, would have skyrocketed the federal debt to $24T by the end of 2016. There's no explanation in the world that would make such a number "not scary" to the nation, except to those with blinders on!

"other countries" include you?

lukas @forwardourmotto 9s
The right isn't resting, the left can't either RT @dane101 Spring's Wisconsin Supreme Court race already top topic on Vicki McKenna's show.

With all due respect, the fact that someone was born "that way" has nothing to do with whether or not they have a mental illness. Someone who's gay, in theory, could both be born that way "as God intended" AND be suffering from a mental illness. Pedophiles are born that way (NO, I'm NOT comparing Gay men and women to pedophiles in any other sense except for this specific analogy) but we realize it's not the norm; it's clearly an illness. A person who's gay could, again IN THEORY, be suffering from a mental illness, but since it has no negative consequences to society (in fact, it helps keep populations down), could live a normal, happy life.

North Shore - I believe I understand what you are trying to say, but I need to clarify a couple points in the event there are those who don't.

Homosexuality is not - nor ever has been - a mental illness. Yes, gay people may also suffer from mental illness - the same illnesses straight people suffer from (bi polar, anxiety, depression, etc.). Homosexuality in itself, is not - NOT - a mental illness.

There is no god so gay people are not born "that way." Even if there was a god, yes this being would have intented that person to be gay. The moment you can prove to me there is a god and homosexuality was not intended, is the moment I will eat my words and pay Hoffa Schmity's $50 with interest.

Wow, what a brave guy. Trying logic as a means of debating. You talking to people who are locked in to their biases. They will never change until they have a personal or devotional experience with a family member of friend who comes out of the closet. It then will hit home and maybe, if there a lick of empathy, they will see the light. I live in a large major city. The homosexual community is quite large, and the constant exposure to the gay community, friends and family, helps a great deal in understanding, it is not a life style, it is who God made them. They are gay, it is not a mental illness. It's just as simple as being tall, or short. A Negro or a Caucasian. You are born Gay. Having no first hand experience with homosexuals as people negates any opinion any one who calls it a disease. That's just flat out ignorance.

As folks in the Gay Community often say, if it the sex that bothers people, then maybe they are gay and don't know it. Yet.

@William Eib -

"All the GOPer have is their selfishness, no one gets anything for free."

Nothing is free - someone has to pay for it.

Until you're ready to put your money where your mouth is, and post your last tax return showing how you gave more money in taxes to the government than what you legally owed, then you you're not leading by example and you have no room to talk on this issue!

Get a clue!

William,
You are definately an extremist. Just like those union members who filled the streets of Madison, damaged our capitol which cost the taxpayers a ton to fix, spewed hate mail to our GOP representatives, etc etc for monthes on end. What did it get them in the end. Nothing. Millions of dollars later from the AFLCIO etc. Now they have taken to the courts in Madison WI of course, the most liberal place in WI they could find where they could find judges simpathetic to their cause.
William, if you think the GOP wants to take away free stuff from everyone, you couldn't be more misinformed. We want to help people create something for own lives and wellbeing, not keep them dependant on Big Government.

Who are you kidding. The Obama campaign started their nagative ads etc etc etc the day the knew Romney was running. Much of them filled with lies and slanted. They kept saying Romney didn't have a plan- well I watched the Obama speeches also, yes, to hear the other side. Nope, hardly heard anything about what Obama had in store for the next four years- what was his plan going forward? Not sure til this day. I guess we'll find out as we go, or will we? Hummm. Maybe it'll just sneak up on us. I suppose that Fox is just lieing about Bengahsi also. They have lots of documents to prove their case that this was quite possibly a cover up. Where's the proof from the Obama administration? Oh, now Hilary is retiring, Rice is out of town for the hearings, and Petreus..... sends someone else in place of him. All very interesting. I know, you have excueses for that too.

He may think he can walk on water because so many have made him to seem that way. The media included. The media is so biased it just isn't funny. Nothing you can say will make the poeple who believe inthe GOP change their minds. Romney should have won. Obama is all talk. Tax everyone over 250, 000. That's not taxing the rich. They have a funny idea of rich. In some parts of the USA, $250,000 is middle class in reality.

@ Dick - god didn't intend anything. There is no god. There are stories and myths, true, but there no supernatural being that has any right to tell us how to live. There never was.

Gay people can not have children in the "traditional" sence (what ever that is). They don't posess the corresponding "plumming" (yeah - bad term... it's early and I brain freezing the technical terms).

There are plenty of straight couples who can not concieve and bare children with out the intervention from a medical doctor or adopting, either. So they get a pass because the parts are there? Who descides that - the nonexistet god or the homophobic men who made the whole thing up?

Gays can and do have children through a variety of means. Surrogates, marriage or other working arrangement with a person of the opposite sex, in vitro just like straight couples have been known to do . . .

Now, maybe mother nature creates people who are disinclined to reproduction in order to keep the population from getting too dense, but that is a whole different issue.

What gave you the opinion I did not believe in GOD. I am curious.

So based on that, the only reason for monogomouse relationships is to make babies?

I understand, you are using your point of procreation as an argument against homosexutality. I can only hope this article will help.
http://www.chromosomechronicles.com/2009/07/29/sexual-reproduction-for-same-sex-couples/

Dick: what is your problem with same sex marriage? What is going to happen?

Marriages for centuries were arranged by the Father. It was for economic and political reasons. Then out of the blue a couple of people wanted to find their own mate, to get married out of love. That just threw everything in to a tail spin. I am sure the same arguments against same sex marriage were used to stop marriages for love.

When I was a kid, you did no marry out side of your faith or ethnicity. No way would an Irish girl marry and Italian guy. Unheard of. Miscegenation was a whole other issue. The combining of the Races. That was the end of the world and marriage as we knew it. Now here we are centuries later still having the same old argument. Holding on to something for reasons that are rarely articulated in the arguments. themselves. nothing is going to change, society will not crumble. Marriage will still be important and a grand ritual which we are slowly working towards as an act of love between two human beings. The ultimate vow of partnership. Accepted by society and in the eyes of the law. As far as procreating. I don;t see what that has to do with marriage. My wife and I have been together as man and wife for 46 years and no children. Just not for us. But it upsets a great many people that we did not procreate. Why? Is a constant mystery to me. That it would be such a big deal to other people that we chose not to have kids.

Please read the second half of my post.

I was catching myself arguing circularly. I do hope the article I posted helps.

Agreed. Homosexuality is different and that's scary and makes me uncomfortable. It's wrong because God.

How does Social Security add to the deficit?

Let me see, you claim that the sole purpose of marriage is to procreate, the scientific inability of a same sex couple to procreate, negates same sex marriage. Marriage is a coupling of two people, first out of responsibility to s and family, then as man progressed it came to have economic and political value. Then it became an act or expression of love, then it became institutionalized by the culture; engagements, booking the Church, the catering hall, the band, the bridal party, posting the bands, and getting a license. It is a finalization of commitment of two people to one another. That's it. The defenders of "Traditional Marriage" have added the rest. They defended Marriage against love, defended it against ethnic coupling, against mixed Religions, defended it against miscegenation. Now Same Sex get it's turn to fight for the right to call their ceremony a Marriage. Marriage is not some sacred cow, that if it it messed with the earth is going to fly out of orbit. The earth is round, it obits the sun, the moon orbits the earth. The moon is not made of cheese. We survived all of those apocalyptic causing events. You are trying to hold on to something that is not going any where. It's only you who cares about this and people of your mind set. You are causing alarm about something that is not alarming. If this is the center of your concerns, you need to get out more.

William, you need to calm down. Once again you are changing the topic. I am not talking about marriage. I am talking about having babies.
Good riddens.

@Eib
That is playing a game with percentages. If a the population in a GOP demographic went from 2% to 4% of the population of on food stamps because of the weak Obama recovery, that looks like a 100% increase. However, in a Dem demographic the usage of food stamps within a population could have increased from 55% to 75% and it only equates to a 36% increase; yet encompasses more people. We would both agree that the second demographic is considerably more dependent and well within the 47% that voted for Santa Claus as president.

How does social security add to the debt, it is self funding.

As Baldwin says---it does not.

slouch2geneva @slouch2geneva 6m
MT @KellyO: Senate women's class photo, current & newly elected. Record 20 for next Congress (not all in photo) bit.ly/QJgmeK

YUP. Good ol Ronny was spot on.

Bernie Sanders @SenSanders 22h
Social Security has nothing to do with the deficit. - Ronald Reagan, Oct. 7, 1984 #NoCuts #Budget

@William Eib -

What do any of your recent postings on this board have to do with Baldwin beating Thompson in the Wisconsin Senate race?

Is your reading comprehension really that bad and worthless, or do you just like spamming blogs with random off-topic ramblings?