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What's Up With Those Gas Prices?

Here's the drama around why they seem so unpredictable.

 

An analyst that has kept tabs on the oil industry for 30 years says the turmoil in the oil-producing countries is to blame for the fluctuation in prices we're seeing at the gas pump here.

And things are getting pretty dicey.

Between Sudan, Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Yemen, Libya, and Iraq -- James Williams, owner of Arkansas-based WTRG Economics, told the Journal Sentinel things are a mess.

"I would say in terms of overall geopolitical risk of a major supply interruption with limited spare capacity to handle it, this is the worst of times. This is the most extreme," Williams said.

Click here to read more on JSOnline.com.

Related Topics: Gas Prices, James Williams, and WTRG Economics

C. Sanders

11:04 am on Sunday, February 26, 2012

W/hat they don't teach you in Community Organizer School:

1. Oil PRICED IN US DOLLARS: and paid for everywhere on the planet in U.S. Dollars, and when the value of the Dollar sinks [as it has been doing for a number of years], oil gets more expensive. Speculators are blamed for the problem, because the truth is an open indictment of our politicians inability to govern.
2. U.S. ECONOMIC POLICY can correct the continued slide of the U.S. dollar and either stabilize or reduce the price per barrel denominated in Dollars. How is our domestic and foreign economic policy doing as it relates to stabilizing oil prices?
3. U.S. ENERGY POLICYy can stabilize and/or reduce the price of oil but moving "smartly" toward energy independence and related increase in world energy capacity. This brings prices DOWN. Does anyone know what our stated and implemented energy policy is?
4. LEADERSHIP: “process of social influence in which ONE person can enlist the aid and support of others in the accomplishment of a common task".

As we look at the prospect of $5.00-6.00 gas, how are we doing as a Nation on these 4 points that aren't taught in Community Organizer School?

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Atom Ant

7:23 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

What they teach you in Corporate Media School.

Don't blame the Fed for printing too much money and keeping interest rates too low. Blame everything but the Fed because big business wants cheap credit and wants a weak dollar since a large portion of their global profits is translated back into US dollars. Profits inflated by the weak dollar mean bigger executive compensation.

The price of crude oil was nearly 40 dollars a barrel lower when the Fed intiaited its most recent round of money printing. In early October, the Fed announced the unlimited lines of credit to foreign banks and started its purchase of long-term treasury bonds. Since then, there have been four more announcements by the Fed and other central banks to provide more liquidity to the banks.

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Tim Scott

7:55 am on Monday, February 27, 2012

Does anyone here think that oil that lies in foreign lands is not "Our Oil" - and that oil exporting Nations have the RIGHT to obtain as much for the commodity that enables large-scale civilization, and funds THEIRS, as they can get?

Why would I, as an oil exporter, want to accept Federal Reserve notes as payment for a commodity as precious as oil?

Oil Exporters accept the "petrodollar" trade - FOR NOW - because of the 5th. Fleet stationed in Bahrain; and American military assets deployed all over the M.E.

Saddam wanted to trade oil for Euros. Murdered by U.S.

Ghadaffi wanted a Pan-African Gold Dinar. Murdered by U.S.

Iran IS trading oil for gold/other. Scheduled for invasion and regime change.

Troops in Afghanistan block direct Chinese access to the M.E. That is why they are they.

Fuel of all sorts, needs to be taxed by a minimum of an additional $2/gal to discourage waste and fund the infrastructure for post-peak oil

If you want to play with an interesting thought - imagine if Greece defaults and returns to the Drachma. WHO will accept Drachma for oil? Greece produces a few thousand barrels per day. Their large-scale civilization WILL disappear.

Clark

1:07 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

It's Obama's fault!! Drill in the US which will create jobs and makes us less dependent on the Middle East!

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Matt

3:13 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

more oil is being produced now then under the last 4 years of Bush. More offshore drilling then under Bush as well.
Way to look at the facts and think it out before you commented Clark.

http://www.indexmundi.com/energy.aspx?country=us&product=oil&graph=production

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Steve

8:04 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

Only because of private land that Obama has no control over. The land he does control drilling over has come to a complete stop. Bush opened up a lot of drilling right at the end of his term, Obama can't take any credit for this. The man hates being real energy independent he enjoys higher prices as his pipe dream of solar and wind can be rammed down the throats.

mau

1:21 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

Gall darn George Bush, Dick Cheney and their oil buddies.
Oops, they're gone.
Gall darn Barrack Obama, Joe Biden and their oil buddies.

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TOM

5:49 am on Monday, February 27, 2012

Plus don't forget we have electric cars to sell now for our union cronies.Higher gas prices make them seem attractive

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Tim Scott

8:00 am on Monday, February 27, 2012

We don't have an electric grid capable of supporting wide-scale electric car use.

Coal fired power plants are being shut down, due to EPA regulations, and generating capacity is decreasing.

You need to buy a bicycle.

jimmy n

2:51 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

Unstable mid-east, refineries shut down on east coast, increased global demand.

Nah, let's just blame Obama

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David Tatarowicz

3:31 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

As I noted in a previous blog, the United States is now Exporting MORE petroleum products than it is Importing !!! Yes -- for the first time since 1947, we are a Net Exporter.

This is due quite a bit to the fact that we have very cheap Natural Gas here, and that is replacing the use of heating fuel (which by the way is the same as diesel fuel) -- With the decreased use of heating oil the supply and demand theory should kick in and the price should come down even more --- Except that the oil companies are simply shipping it overseas where they can sell it for more.

The pipeline that Canada wants to stretch down to the Texas coast is so that they can send that oil overseas -- NOT to the United States for use -- we have too much here and they would not get as much as shipping it out through the Texas ports.

Ironically, the other pipeline they want to build would be entirely in Canada and run to their west coast to ship to China -- However the Canadian Environmentalists do not want a pipeline going across their pristine mountains, lakes and forests and they are blocking its construction ---

Funny that the Republicans want to build a pipeline over our largest underground source of fresh water when the Canadians won't build one across their own territory -- but maybe that is because the Canadian officials have not sold out yet to the oil industry.

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C. Sanders

5:02 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

The United States consumes more oil than any other country in the world: 18.7 million barrels of oil per day, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration's (EIA) short-term energy outlook.

To satisfy that demand, the United States imports 9 to 12 million barrels of oil per day.

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Tim Scott

7:40 am on Monday, February 27, 2012

Key word: Petroleum products - that's refined products, not crude, so you are both right, but in different terms and areas.

America is producing approx 5.3M/bbl day - And that's a rogh approximation based on some recent reading. The rest is imported.

Americans live an unsustainable lifestyle, and the oil shock is on the way. Prepare for more pain.

That Tar Sands oil will be more important as oil fields in the US deplete. The US now has a record number of oil wells producing at increasing lower rates of production. the low hanging fruit is gone. Fracking and horizontal drilling is akin to a "super straw", with high initial production rates, then a quick peak, and a fast depletion curve.

America will never run out of oil - we will run out of capital to drill for oil and when the EROEI is equal, no more activity will occur. It is said that some wells are in fact, energy sinks. The end will likely come much faster than you think.

Gofaq Uurslf

4:02 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

Obama has big oil in his pocket. Idiot refuses the pipeline, and then his response to rising concern over prices, "We can't do anything in the short term." If that was Bush, he would have been ridiculed right out of the country. That's the beauty of having the truth commission writing the networks' newscasts. By the way, gas was $1.89 when the guy took office. Guess it wasn't George's fault after all.

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Keith Schmitz

9:45 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

So what's the pipeline going to go? Oil hit $4 under Bush as well.

Honestly, what can the president do to affect oil prices in the short run, no matter the party.

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David Tatarowicz

1:09 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

@Nate --- a pipeline from Canada to the mid United States may indicate oil for US consumption -- but the pipeline they want to build goes all the way to the Texas shore --- where it will be put on ships and sent overseas where the Canadians can get more money for it --- now if you own stock in Canadian Oil Companies, you probably want the pipeline so you make more money -- but if you are looking for more oil here in the United States, pipeline is not meant for us.

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Keith Schmitz

2:11 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Not to mention that the jobs figure thrown out there from the pipeline has been wildly inflated.

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Keith Schmitz

2:12 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Oh by the way Nate, overlooking your disrespectful comment about the President, he didn't stop the pipeline, but held it up for study.

And don't worry. We all know you wouldn't have ridiculed Bush for holding it up.

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mau

2:27 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

It comes with the territory. I had to listen to 8 years of disrespectful, hateful, comments and news about Bush. Even had to hear the rhetoric into obama's term. And now it has been a barrage of hate speech against the sitting governor.

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Gofaq Uurslf

3:12 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Keith you underestimate my bipartisanship. That's all this president does, research, wait, delay, call it what you will. It will never pass while he's in office. It conflicts with his large stake in solar energy, I mean fraudulent loans.

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Steve

4:38 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

The pipeline was approved all down the bureaucratic line. Contractors had purchased equipment, it was a go. Then it came to Obama and it doesn't fit his mold of energy, and now it sits dead.

I'm sure the contractors that invested millions won't forget very soon who did this.

Greg Dalle

4:22 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

They find the dumbest reasons to raise gas price, even before the demand or supply changes. Like before a Holiday, shouldn't prices rise after a increase in demand? I have no respect for those messing with commodity futures. It would be like buying milk for $3.00 one week then $3.35 next week an reason being Wiscosin might get a storm?

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stopthemadness

5:01 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

I blame George Bush and Scott Walker....oh wait!

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Keith Schmitz

2:10 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Anyone who thinks the price of gas will carry them into the White House really has nothing to say or nothing to offer.

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Steve

4:40 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Glad you admit one of the ways Obama was elected.

Eric

5:29 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

Dynamic world market supply/demand, stagnant & occaissionally reduced US refinery capacity, constantly rotating US blend requirements, speculators, taxes

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Keith Schmitz

10:12 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

Wow, a statement of comment sense and clarity.

$$andSense

7:58 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012

Like the price of bread, milk or anything else, if you don't like the price of gas or anything else, don't buy it. Should government control the price of everything? After all, we live in a capitalistic society. Move to a communist nation like China. You choose (assumed) to live here in the US. Get over it and pay up. After all, some of the front runners for the upcoming presidential election want to militarily take on Iran, another mid-east oil producer. Threaten your neighbor with harm and see how many other neigbhors may shun you.

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AlfredKell

9:04 am on Monday, February 27, 2012

Peak Oil theory is simply that, a theory , that is continually proven wrong as technology advances forward and new oil is found....Gosh, its everywhere, just as the Canucks and the North Dakotans.

Peak Oil theory is more malthusian bullshit economics.

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Herbert

10:26 am on Monday, February 27, 2012

Someone invented a car that ran on water vapor and got over 100 miles per gallon. I think it was Shell that purchased the idea and never brought it into production. Go figure.

Watch the documentary "Gas Hole". What a different world this would be today if we were not so dependent on gas.

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Craig

11:15 am on Monday, February 27, 2012

That technology requires use of electricity, splitting the atoms of water into hydrogen gas and oxygen (H2+O).
Hydrogen bombs are dangerous, and that is why you do not see this being used in automobiles.
If electric cars take hold- you will just see huge spikes in the cost of electricity.

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CowDung

11:49 am on Monday, February 27, 2012

While Hydrogen gas is explosive, the technology used to break apart water atoms will never be capable of creating an explosion anywhere near that of a hydrogen bomb.

I also think that in the process of producing electricity, the atoms are combined to create water molecules, not breaking them. Breaking water molecules into Oxygen and Hydrogen requires electricity--that process cannot generate electricity.

The fuel cells on the space shuttle combined oxygen and hydrogen to produce electricity.

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mau

1:06 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

@Herbert, my dad used to talk about that. I thought he said that Henry Ford bought the patent for the technology.

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CowDung

3:49 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Even if Ford purchased the patent, one would expect to be able to find it in the US patent registry--all patents are published. Eventually, the rights of patent protection do run out so someone should have been able to make use of the technology if it indeed worked as advertised...

Craig Manske

11:07 am on Monday, February 27, 2012

Man oh man, lots of finger pointing, logical fallacy and ignorance going around in these comments. I love watching those who try to hold onto outdated ideas based on misinformation from people they "trust", flounder trying to figure out how to keep things "the way they were". I agree with Tim Scott, many of you just won't be able to adjust...

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Rees Roberts

11:37 am on Monday, February 27, 2012

As we are seeing in just these comments, there are a variety of understandings about the state of energy in our country.

I have been studying the subject of energy for the past 5 years. I founded Transition Wisconsin, a non-profit, 501(c)(3) tax exempt corporation for the express purpose of educating the public how to "Transition" to a world with less energy.

This is part of a world wide grass roots movement now on all continents. There are hundreds of American cities, villages and towns who have created Transition "Initiatives" who hold monthly meetings and share info via the web. We have our own here. It is called Transition Racine.

As you can imagine, the subject is a bit scary. But if you can hold out there is much promise for your children, grand-children and beyond. It is that promise which needs so much accurate information shared.

Over the next few months, I will be asking Patch for blogging privileges to share information about this subject. It hopefully, will help provide a foundation for people on what we can expect and what we can do about it.

To start, here is a link to our Peak Oil Page at Transition Wisconsin (TW). TW has a lot of good starting information on where we have been, where we are now and what our options are going forward. I encourage you to look at it and join for free for more info:

http://www.transitionwisconsin.org/page/peak-oil-info

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AlfredKell

12:24 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Nonsense, quackery. This you are simply trying to push an agenda based upon junk science,it was people like you who 10 years ago said that oil shale was nothing and would not contribute. Please take your quackery and junk science to HuffingtonPost.

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mau

12:49 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

@lias Roberts, ANOTHER non-profit? Who's your board of directors?

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Rees Roberts

12:50 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

@lias AlfredKell

What agenda do you specifically speak about? Why are you so offended? This seems to have hit a nerve with you. Why? Specifics please.

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Rees Roberts

12:54 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

@lias Mau

My name is not an alias. 2nd, all corporate information is clearly transparent for all members who join the web site. Come join us.

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mau

12:59 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

I'm not an alias which is an alternative name. My Patch name is an acronym which is a name using initials.

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Tim Scott

2:44 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

The best site for information about oil is The Oil Drum:

http://www.theoildrum.com/

I didn't see it on your site.

LATOC is done, as you noted. The gloomiest of the Doomers went there - but Matt moved on to Astrology - Wonder how that's working out for him?

If people hang around on The Oil Drum for awhile they will learn a lot - there are many from the industry who post there, and it's hard-core information straight from the industry - but many will find the Doomers in the comment section disturbing.

Richard Heinberg's new book, "The End of Growth" is available at the Racine Public Library.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjFQLGVIJak

Daniel Yergins book, "The Prize" is also available at the library. The PBS documentary is also on you-tube, it will take you almost 8 hours to watch it all, but it is excellent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qspu35JG59Q

I'm a fan of Jay Hanson : http://dieoff.org/

and Richard Duncan :http://www.thesocialcontract.com/pdf/sixteen-two/xvi-2-93.pdf

Daniel S.

11:57 am on Monday, February 27, 2012

What exactly does it mean to be non-profit? Churches are non-profit . . . . so too are lots of charitable organizations that have lots of wealth.

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Rees Roberts

12:08 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Daniel S.

Thank you for your question. What it means is we, as the name implies, do not make a profit. Any monies earned are used for the purposes of the corporation. A separate status, tax exemption, is only available to non-profits. It means our corporation may accept donations which are tax exempt on people's taxes. So, like your favorite charity, we have the same status. If you wanted to donate to us, we would be able to provide you a letter documenting that donation. You could then deduct that amount on your tax return. Because we are brand new, we have little to show but as people become to understand the importance of accurate information, we are hoping people will help us with funding (and join us) I hope that answers your question.

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David Tatarowicz

1:16 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Since the 1970's I have watched the same scenario repeated in this country over and over again in regards to our reliance on oil. Americans have memories about two seconds longer than a clinical diagnosis of Alzhiemers (sp?) --------- until we truly diversify our energy alternatives, this same discussion will be repeated over and over and over every few years

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Gofaq Uurslf

3:15 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

David, you're right we have the attention span and memory of a goldfish doing a lap around its bowl. Liberals live off that, trying over and over to recycle and pass their same failed programs. Solar and wind energy.....I read about this in my science books in the 80s. Looks like we're no closer to replacing oil.

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Daniel S.

3:26 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

"read about it in the 80's." Why hasn't it been brought to affordable and reliable reality since then? Who has stymied the advancement?

Daniel S.

1:42 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Will diversification really solve the issue of unstable and uncontrollable pricing of energy? Not very likely. As I see it, the issue is more about the average person being able to afford the required energy, vehicle, maintenance and insurance to operate their desired mode of transportation so they can attempt to acquire a portion of the "Dream" we grew up hearing about. There are a select bunch living the dream; they are the ones that control all that we need. The power and wealth they desire is destroying the very world they depend on for their success.

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Craig Manske

2:25 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Danial S.

Since when does wealth and power = "the dream"? As long as I can speak my opinion without the fear of spending my life in a gulag, I am living the dream. If gas gets too high to drive, even though my work is 13 miles from my home, I'll find another way, including but not limited to my feet and legs. Why don't we all just face it, "the dream" people really don't want to give up is all the convenience they gained while times were good.

Rees Roberts

2:13 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Daniel S.

How does paying $0.75 a gallon sound? That is the approximate equivalent price of using electricity to power an electric car. There are many electric car options for the user and more coming. The Chevy Volt gasoline engine, for example, will charge the battery which runs the electric motor. But you can also charge the same battery by merely plugging it into a wall outlet at the end of the day. Eight hours later you will have a fully charged battery. You can then go between 35 and 40 miles completely without using gasoline. Many people will find that acceptable for their transportation needs locally per day. If you add solar panels to your home to the mix you can obtain the suns energy to charge your home batteries which could then charge your car battery at night. Other combinations are available too, like the Toyota Prius.

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mau

2:31 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

The only solution is to quit consuming. I don't know how anybody thinks an electric car is the answer. Everything including it's energy source comes from the use of fossil fuels. Add to the the purchase price of the car is outside the middle class wage earners income, impossible to achieve for the poor.

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Daniel S.

2:38 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

How does paying over $30,000 for a vehicle sound? Absolutely ridiculous. Wow, a whole 35 - 40 miles without using gasoline : ( Then there is the approximate equivalent price per gallon based on some miscalculated figures by? There are so many variables that apply with electric vehicles it's difficult to discern the real advantage. Marketing gurus and the Feds will do their best to herd the sheep in their desired direction. The truth is, society has run amok and there is no easy way out of the mess we've created around the world. Capitalism, Communism and Socialism have all failed the majority. However, the minority rules . . . .

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mau

3:26 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Something rarely if ever discussed is the batteries. They do not last a lifetime, maybe 5-6 years. Then what do you do with the batteries and how much do replacement batteries cost. Will it be cost effective or will owners dump the vehicle into the unsuspecting used car owners who will have to deal with the problem. And they go on and buy another new vehicle and start the whole cycle over again.

Another question, what are the repair costs on electric cars and how mechanically reliable are they.

Daniel S.

2:53 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

"Since when does wealth and power = "the dream"?" As with most everything, we all have our own ideas. There are many factors which influence each thought we all have. Not living in a Gulag is a dream, okay; mine was to have a place of my own that was affordable, raise a family, have a decent job and to do all these for the next 30 or so years while I worked toward retirement at 62. Well, that lasted about 15 years and has been spiraling in the opposite direction for 5 of the last 10. 7 years left to go to that magical 62 (well it was at one time), which now seems to be pushed out to 66 pending further meddling by our illustrious (facetious) political leaders. There are plenty of people who do not live in a Gulag in the USA, somehow I imagine that many of those people do not consider themselves living the dream; there are many who see it as a nightmare though.

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Craig Manske

4:32 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Danial S.

You don't live the dream, you pursue it. The dream is one's ability to pursue happiness, not happiness itself. My Gulag reference was a metaphor representing a person's inability to pursue happiness. i.e. You can't pursue your dreams while you're in jail. The only people living the nightmare, as you call it, are those who refuse to work hard at the pursuit. They take no risks in life and thus gain nothing. "Nothing ventured nothing gained", as they say. But, for some reason they feel they're entitled to a house, family, decent job and retirement at 65. Maybe that's how they were raised, I don't know, but no one is entitled to anything but their own ability to pursue the dream. If they're successful, good for them, if not, well that doesn't give them the right to point fingers and demand it anyway.

mau

3:26 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

obama's green baby

A Delaware bankruptcy judge on Wednesday approved close to $370,000 in bonuses for 20 employees of Solyndra LLC, a solar panel manufacturer that received a half-billion dollar loan from the federal government before declaring bankruptcy.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/AP/Search/US/Default.aspx?id=1541538

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mau

4:17 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

There's that proverbial 8 ball again. Let's hand the naive public a menu of excuses. If one doesn't work, after we incite everyone with the doom and gloom news of the price of gas, then we'll try another one.

It all boils down to the market, speculation and greed.

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mau

4:30 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

@Steve, bet a lot of people wished they were in that position, including me.

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patchreader 123

4:33 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

The only "excuse" I tend to not dismiss is the increase in Asian demand. China need to feed its growing petroleum needs.

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mau

4:43 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

@patch, agreed, everything seems to lead back to China.

Gregory Kluck

4:55 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Oy Vey!! I drove big V8 powered sedans for many years, then went to a six cylinder mid size car. Now I drive a 4 cylinder HHR Panel truck that gets awesome mileage (owned two of them) and is perfect for my business as a mobile DJ. Now that Chevrolet has stopped making this vehicle, what is my next option? A bigger SUV? GM's full size van? Wanting to be responsible to the environment using a smaller vehicle and save fuel costs on top of that, but Chevy in their infinite wisdom has stopped making such a vehicle. There are no windowless small vans available except maybe the Ford Transit Connect which is made in Turkey of all places and is quite a bit more costly to purchase.
@Tim Scott....I find your comments interesting but I would have to disagree with the comment about Saddam and Qadaffi. Sadam was tried and executed by the Iraqis in their own court. Qadaffi was killed by insurgents in his own country. As far as Iran is concerned, that has yet to unfold and I guarantee that it will not be good for anyone, the US or Iran.

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Daniel S.

6:11 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Why has the Asian demand increased, what was/is the impetus behind the growing economy in China? Is it time to pull out proverbial mirror?

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Rees Roberts

6:35 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Daniel S:

You said "How does paying over $30,000 for a vehicle sound? Absolutely ridiculous. Wow, a whole 35 - 40 miles without using gasoline"

First, Daniel, were you aware of a $7500 tax deduction if you buy such a car? Now a $30,000 car comes down to $22,500.

Next, how many miles do you put on when doing your normal everyday stuff around town? Ever actually measure it?

Last, the Asian demand has increased because both China and India have embraced the Industrial Revolution. Both require vast increases in energy. Both China and India have huge populations and as more people want the same kind of lifestyle we have been accustomed to now they want it too. The result? They are building a coal fire power plant each week. Now they are experiencing huge environmental issues. Those are the facts. Tis a problem for us all.

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Craig

7:11 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Clinton gave China most favored nation status. It took some time; but most of our manufacturing jobs have gone there, while we gobble up the cheap crap they make and call it a bargain. They are managing the global recession fairly well, and building highways and infrastructure much like USA did after WWII. If and when we come out of the recession, they will be more able to compete because of that infrastructure. Their quality will improve even more and a US recovery will be even more difficult.

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patchreader 123

7:34 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

"If and when we come out of the recession, they will be more able to compete because of that infrastructure. Their quality will improve even more..."

True. However, this will likely mean less labor to fill their increasing number of factories resulting in increased labor costs there, and an associated rise in the costs of raw materials to the Chinese due to an increase in its demand there.....possibly resulting in fewer US companies sending its manufacturing there, making a US recovery more likely (hopefully).

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/opinion/chinese-labor-cheap-no-more.html

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Craig

7:42 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Agreed. But it can't happen soon enough!

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C. Sanders

8:34 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

In real terms, by estimating the true market value of the Yuan if it were permitted to float against the Dollar, the China economy passed the U S more than 3 years ago. That's the bad news, the good news is that there is an interdependence the Chinese have with the 2nd economy on the planet that they cannot ignore.

Daniel S.

8:28 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Rees Robert said: "were you aware of a $7500 tax deduction" Where does that $7500 come from, thin air? No, your pocket. "Now a $30,000 car comes down to $22,500." based on the price search I did, $30,000 was after the rebate. "Asian demand has increased because both China and India have embraced the Industrial Revolution." It's more like, those who run the USA (business & gov't) embraced countries that do not enforce laws we slap on our own citizens and businesses. As usual the citizens must bail them out, through lower wages and benefits, higher prices on goods and a standard of living that keep slipping away; unless you put your wife to work and take on a part time job yourself.

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Rees Roberts

8:45 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Daniel S:

The $30,000 number came from your post. I just shared that the Feds were providing a tax deduction of $7,500. That is all I was saying. If you come back and then do "research" that it costs more than $30,000 for a car then you are merely changing the numbers to suite your argument. It might have been better to just tell you about the $7,500 tax deduction and not try to tie it to your suggested $30,000 example. Please don't suggest I was the one who suggested the $30,000 number. Thanks.

p.s. The actual post you wrote about the $30,000 was at 2:38 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012.

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mau

7:30 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012

National News tonight GM is halting production of the Volt and laying off, I think they said, 1300 workers. Seems the Volt is too expensive.

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mau

12:43 pm on Sunday, March 4, 2012

Yes, didn't get back to correct my statement. I had heard it on the national news but read a more detailed story after posting. This is not the first time they have suspended production for supply to catch up to demand. But I still think they are much too expensive for the average middle to low class consumer.

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Rees Roberts

2:16 pm on Sunday, March 4, 2012

I completely agree with you Mau. My thinking is as more competition occurs the price will come down which will benefit everyone.

Daniel S.

9:11 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

You are correct Mr. Roberts, you mentioned the Volt and I shared the cost in my post. It's actually over $30,000 but I rounded it down. By the way, sticker price is around $41,000. In contrast: my first brand new home (a duplex) cost me $101,000 in 1988. Before the housing readjustment kicked in, it was close to $215,000 for that place; today it's back down to $144,000 and dropping. Here's hoping the auto industry prices crash next.

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mau

9:32 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

You're not going to get any version of the Volt for under $30K even with the rebate.

It will be a cold day in hell, the day I spend that much money for a vehicle. I can buy a lot of gas for that price. My son's old scrappy Mitsubishi that was given to them, gets 35-40 mpg.

The 2012 model also benefits from a $1,005 price drop, with some lower-cost option packages available. The biggest change is that the standard GPS navigation system is replaced by GM’s OnStar turn-by-turn feature. The base price for the 2012 model will be $39,995, including shipping. After the $7,500 federal tax rebate, that brings the net price to $32,495. The top price with options such as leather seats and a map-based navigation system, but no dealer markups, will be $46,265, or $38,865 after the tax credit.

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Rees Roberts

10:10 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

mau

Currently you are correct. However, I see many more electric car options going forward. Competition always seems to do wonders bringing down the price of products. Innovation and smart consumers will certainly do their part too. I too would not purchase a car with a purchase price like that even with a $7500 tax break. As more people see the benefits from electric powered vehicles supply will improve along with a better price tag.

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Daniel S.

10:41 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

If competition brings prices down, why are cars so expensive in general; there are plenty of vehicle brands and models? There are plenty of coffee shops, why is coffee so expensive? Competition doesn't seem to be working so well.

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Rees Roberts

11:05 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012

Daniel S.

Like most things you can buy good, better and best. Your comments would be just as valid 30 years ago as it is now. People complained back then too. For our economic system to work you must always have continued growth in cost.

If you are interested in how energy, the economy and the environment work together take a look at Chris Martinson's crash course. It has great information and would help answer your questions.

Site:
http://www.chrismartenson.com/page/crash-course-one-year-anniversary

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Daniel S.

12:09 am on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

This guys a genius (Chris M.); "let me tell you why the next 20 years will be much different than the last 20" if he only knew it would be awesome. Of course, who expected the past 20 to bring what it brought? Technology advanced incredibly, yet we still have the 100 year old drug war and the oil crises has been growing since 1973. As for our economic system to work; it hasn't been working for quite some time now. There will be changes in the next 20 years, probably big changes in the next 10 or less. Without watching the Crash course, I doubt it's the same course I'm seeing. But the word Crash is in mine too. It's been a slice Mr. Roberts, have a wonderful evening.

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Rees Roberts

1:12 am on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Daniel S.

Your response was so clear. Thank you for allowing me to suggest something and responding in such a kind way.

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Rees Roberts

11:02 am on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Did anyone else see this CNN opinion? Yikes, take a look at what the people in the UK are paying for gasoline. They call it petrol there.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/opinion/opinion-european-gas-prices/index.html?eref=rss_us

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Steve

11:18 am on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Yippie big socialist government

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Rees Roberts

11:26 am on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Steve:

So you are saying every country in Europe is socialist? These gasoline prices are the same all over Europe.... not just in the UK.

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Steve

11:37 am on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Pretty much yes. They are taxed to hell over there. Every herd of VAT? All of those services including national healthcare are not free.

"The difference between countries comes down to taxes and subsidies," said Tom Kloza, the chief oil analyst for Oil Price Information Service. "Prices are incredibly high in Europe because of the stiff taxes that EU countries put on fuel. The same holds true for many other countries."

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Tim Scott

12:53 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Britian has run out of money - and the North Sea oil fields are depleting fast. Britian is now importing oil - which it can't do for long. Soon there will be shortages.

"In a stark warning ahead of next month’s Budget, the Chancellor said there was little the Coalition could do to stimulate the economy.

Mr Osborne made it clear that due to the parlous state of the public finances the best hope for economic growth was to encourage businesses to flourish and hire more workers.

“The British Government has run out of money because all the money was spent in the good years,” the Chancellor said. “The money and the investment and the jobs need to come from the private sector.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9107485/George-Osborne-UK-has-run-out-of-money.html

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Steve

11:36 am on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Thank you for proving my point

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Alfie

12:49 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

You do realize that all of the difference in petro prices is taxes, right?

Daniel S.

11:43 am on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

It's always been way more costly for fuel in other parts of the world. What isn't mentioned are the cars that get better mileage (or do they?). Ford Fiesta ST over 50 mpg, Mercedes A Class up to 52 mpg. Is the mileage really that high, or is this a conversion difference between US and the Metric /Imperial Gallon system? I do know they offer a lot more small fun cars, that are not available in the USA due to Federal overRegulation.

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Steve

11:51 am on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

They also have smaller roads and need smaller cars to manure effectively. We have more space and can actually spread our legs out and haul drywall from the hardware store.

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David Tatarowicz

12:03 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

@Daniel When I was in Europe I discovered that almost all their cars run on diesel fuel, and almost all of them have standard shift --- even the larger more luxurious cars. Diesel engines get about 30% better mileage than gasoline engines do. Here in the states people tended not to like diesel as much primarily because of the sulfer smell, but now that refiners are doing a better job, and with the new exhaust standards,that is no longer a problem.

A big difference though is that here in the US we tax diesel much higher than they do in Europe. In Europe the governments want better mileage and they encourage it by having a lower road tax on diesel fuel. In this country we should have a two tier road use tax on diesel, a lower one for cars and a higher one for commercial trucks over 26,000 gvw --- that would really help to get folks to switch and dramatically cut their fuel costs, regardless of the size vehicle.

As far as room inside the cars, I am somewhat of an expert at that, as I am 6'5". Here in the states, the automakers do not make cars driver friendly for different size drivers.

I have a Dodge Magnum which has incredible leg room. Speaking to a foreign car mechanic, he also likes that car, because he is short and the car accomodates his needs as well.

He explained to me that the Magnum was designed by Mercedes when they owned Chrysler, and built in the European style, with much more travel for the drivers seat, but fore and back.

Daniel S.

12:31 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

When all is said and done, the powers above us, (corporate & government) do not want us to have cheap fuel, cars that are too efficient, too fun or practical. If they did, we'd have all those things. Yes I know there is more involved, but in simple terms; that's it in a nutshell.

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Tim Scott

12:59 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Will the end of oil be a gradual descent, or more like a "shark fin"?

Many are expecting a "Seneca Cliff" moment -

“I would like to argue that whereas the method used to model Peak Oil using a Gaussian is reasonable when looking at individual oil fields, provinces and countries, it is not reasonable when looking at entire planets, because, unlike oil-producing provinces and countries in decline, planets can't import oil, while oil shocks cause industrial economies to collapse rather than decline gradually along some geologically constrained curve. In [my] article ["Peak Oil is History"] I have a long list of effects such as EROEI decline, export land effect, etc., to make the case for a stepwise decline rather than a gradual one."

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2012/02/pile-of-straw-at-bottom-of-cliff.html

"Don't you stumble, sometimes, into something that seems to make a lot of sense but you can't say exactly why? For a long time, I had in mind the idea that when things start going bad, they tend to go bad fast. We might call this tendency the "Seneca effect" or the "Seneca cliff," from Lucius Anneaus Seneca who wrote that "increases are of sluggish growth, but the way to ruin is rapid."

http://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2011/08/seneca-effect-origins-of-collapse.html

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Tim Scott

5:54 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

"Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe"($8+/gal) - Steven Chu, Obama's Energy Secretary

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73138.html

HMMM... It is Obama's fault after all.

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Daniel S.

9:14 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Craig M. said: "You can't pursue your dreams while you're in jail. " Actually you can, as all pursuits begin with thinking; if you can think, you can pursue your dream. Even the best laid plans go awry however and many dreams turn into nightmares.

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